I've recently begun the arduous move from SG 25 to 15mm. I prefer this scale
for a variety of reasons (reduced cost, better storage, improved tacticle
feel, etc.), but one of the sticking points has been the lack of vechicles in
this scale. I've just discovered that Brigade has just completed masters for
two vehicles in this scale, you can see them at
http://www.brigademodels.co.uk/newmodels/incoming.htm .
Now all I have to do is figure out what to do with all my 25's. I've
got 30+
figures of the following FSE, ODUF, Combat Babes, IF (15+). If anyone
is interested in these contact me off list, we can work out a trade or
something, I'm pretty flexible.
> On Fri, 06 October 2000, Aron_Clark@digidesign.com wrote:
> I've recently begun the arduous move from SG 25 to 15mm. I prefer
I'm sort of wrestling with this myself. I like the look of the 25mm figures,
bu t I feel it plays better with 15mm. I'm planning to keep my 25s for
infantry ba sed games, and due to the fact I don't have enough 15s painted
(actually, not t rue; I have plenty of old 15mm Traveller figures painted, but
I want to paint u p official SG2 figures).
Vehicles are an issue, but paradoxically 15mm is better for vehicle heavy
games. Here's what I use (this is a repeat for most).
- 15mm Traveller Grav Tanks. I missed getting the one that came up on
eBay, bec ause I really couldn't see paying US$130 for one vehicle!!!
Especially as I hav e 3 already. I'd like 1 (heck, 3!) more of these but
realistically you aren't g oing to get many anti grav tank battles in SG2.
- Rocco minitanks untouched. These are HO scale, but look great beside
15mm SG2 and Traveller figures. I try to stay away from US vehicles simply
because in N orth America everyone knows what an M113, Bradley, or Abrams
looks like. I use German Marder APCs (with guns on top) for my tracked APCs.
- Modified Rocco Minitanks. Same HO scale, but they kitbash well. I pull
the tr acks off them and cut styrene sheets into panels. The panels fill in
the spaces where the tracks were located. They make pretty decent hovertanks.
I use Germa n marders for grav APCs, but a specific variant: the driver
training variant. T
he reason is that instead of a gun turret, it has a very sci-fi looking
dome on top. For Grav tanks, I have used two. I modified a Sheridan into a
grav tank, which doesn't look too bad, if boxy. There's also the latest
variant of the Leo pard 2, the Leopard 2A5 KWS II, which makes a great anti
grav tank (you can als o keep it "as is" for a tracked tank). Here's a site
with pictures of the real vehicle. The front armour on the turret is
reminiscent of the Traveller grav ta nks:
http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/leo2.htm
Scroll down for the Leopard 2.
Try Hot Wheels, Matchbox and Rocco
Michael Brown
[quoted original message omitted]
So true--
Matchbox makes
1/92 scale MLRS
1/102 scale M1A1 Abrams
1/102 scale AAV-7
1/92 scale M4 Sherman
1/92 M2 Bradley
and someone (I think its MAtchbox, but can't remember) makes a 1/100
appx scale M60
And around here, each of those costs less than $1 US (a heckuva lot cheaper
than Rocco).
Rob
[quoted original message omitted]
Cool,
compare to:
http://www.geohex.com/vifwac02.htm
Not exact, but not far off. I have the FW mini in my hand. Definitely close
enough to pass for each other with a little modification.
> scale. I've just discovered that Brigade has just completed masters
TTYL,
> Allan Goodall wrote:
> There's also the latest variant of the Leopard 2, the Leopard 2A5 KWS
IIRC both the Leo 2S (Strv 122) and the Leo 2A6 are later than the Leo
2A5 KWS II - I *think* the Bundeswehr has accepted the Leo 2A6 for
service now.
You Americans (yes, Canadians are Americans as well - North Americans,
though not USAmericans) are lucky: where I live, gamers know what both
US, UK, German, Swedish and (ex-)Soviet vehicles look like :-(
For 15mm vehicles though, what about Table Top Miniatures?
Later,
On Sat, 7 Oct 2000 14:56:37 +0100, "Oerjan Ohlson"
<oerjan.ohlson@telia.com> wrote:
> Allan Goodall wrote:
I didn't get a chance to view a lot of web sites. The couple I saw suggested
that the 2A6 wasn't out yet. I bow to your superior knowledge!
> You Americans (yes, Canadians are Americans as well - North Americans,
A word of warning, don't call a Canadian an "American". *LOL* We'll accept
"North American" but "American" means someone from the United States of
America. *L* Don't call a Mexican and American either. *L*
To be honest, many Canadians recognize Leopard 1s as that's the MBT we use. I
don't know if we took any of the early Leopard 2s, but as far as I know we
don't have any 2A5s or later. We use M113s as our APC, so the Marder isn't
recognized.
If you're interested, though, I find that a bit of kitbashing is enough to
suspend people's disbelief. Even if they recognize my Sheridan kitbash grav
tank as a Sheridan, it doesn't seem to be a problem.
> For 15mm vehicles though, what about Table Top Miniatures?
I'm not sure if I've seen them or not. There was someone at GenCon selling
15mm sci-fi vehicles, but I was unimpressed with the detail adn the
design. They seemed very "average". I decided a kitbashed Leopard looked
better.
> Allan Goodall wrote:
I'd check on the status of TTM before placing any order with them; I've heard
rumours that things may be a bit shaky at the moment (Bob Connor, who still
runs TTG (Table Top Games), has recently been placing notices in the magazines
distancing himself and TTG from the chap who bought and now runs
TTM....).
Still, their vehicles are nice if you can still get them - though some
are
a little bit GW-ish in their rivets-and-boilerplate style, perhaps
unsurprisingly as Bryan Ansell was heavily involved with TTG back in those
early days.
Oerjan Ohlson wrote
> >You Americans (yes, Canadians are Americans as well - North
At least, hardly anybody knows what Swedish AFV look like ;-). So I used
some 1/300 ones for my tracked Dirtside force. The 'S' Tank looks
definitely futuristic. And if you cover the tracks, it makes an interesting
Grav-Tank.
Pity that it looks so small beside many nominally same-scale 'real SF'
models - indeed, I have the impresison that many '1/300' SF models are
rather bigger than minis of equivalent real vehicles.
BTW - I remember reading that the 'S' has been retired quite a time ago.
Anybody know the reasons?
Greetings Karl Heinz
Alternatively, compare it to our own 1/300th scale Hanit APC (SFV/011)
which is an exact match, rather than just 'close'!
Tony
[of the Brigade ilk]
> Tony Christney wrote:
> Cool,
> Karl Heinz Ranitzsch wrote:
> You Americans (yes, Canadians are Americans as well - North
You know, sometimes there are definite drawbacks with living a quarter of a
mile or so from the barracks of the local Swedish Army armoured regiment...
I guess most (non-Norwegian <g>) people would have problems telling a
Warrior 2000 from a CV9030... not that I've seen any CV90xx models
around, though :-(
> So I used some 1/300 ones for my tracked Dirtside force. The 'S' Tank
<chuckle> Considering that they were built in the 60s and have now been
decommisioned and scrapped, "futuristic" is a relative term :-/
> Pity that it looks so small beside many nominally same-scale 'real SF'
Yep.
> BTW - I remember reading that the 'S' has been retired quite a time
Can't have been much more than a year or so ago - they only began
scrapping them last spring, and they did that ASAP.
The reasons? * It was over 30 years old, and rather unreliable mechanically *
The gun was too small to defeat modern armour (only 105mm), and it would've
been a royal pain to upgrade to 120mm since you can't "just" replace the
turret the way you do on all those M60 etc. upgrades around the world * It
aimed the gun by turning the entire tank, which means that it can't fire on
the move and that it takes *MUCH* longer to aim than it does for a modern
turretted tank * The gun was mounted so low on the hull that the tank had to
expose almost its entire front when firing from "hull down" positions (reverse
slopes, etc) - similar to Russian tanks with their poor gun depression,
but unlike turreted Western tanks which usually only need to expose the turret
The last three points meant that the S-tanks would've had the
proverbial snowflake's-in-Hell chance of surviving an encounter with
modern MBTs... like T72s of the early 1980s. *Defeating* them was even more
improbable.
But it looked cool, yes <g>
> >At least, hardly anybody knows what Swedish AFV look like ;-).
My favourite RoCo models are the Hispano-Suiza APCs used by the
> Alan and Carmel Brain wrote:
> > >At least, hardly anybody knows what Swedish AFV look like ;-).
They
> didn't work very well, but look quite futuristic. Another goodie in
Don't forget the JagdPanzer Rakete and JagdPanzer Kannone of the same period
- similar looking vehicle but equipped with ATGW (SS11 ?) or 90mm AT gun
respectively. My 15mm Redemptionist Rebel force (Tabletop Games Laserburn
figures) has a Kannone model that has had the gun replaced by a spare plastic
weapon from a GW Titan.
On the topic of Laserburn figures, there are several vehicles in the range
worth checking out - especially the smaller types such as the excellent
little two seat grav car, a grav sled, an excellent grav pickup truck and an
enclosed ground-car type (taxi ? police car ?). The rebels also had the
benefit of a trike which could be adapted to carry heavy weapons and a
three-man air-car (can't remember its correct name).
htm
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> Don't forget the JagdPanzer Rakete and JagdPanzer Kannone of the same
Since converted to Jaguar-I and Jaguar-II respectively with TOW and HOT
missile s (I forget which one has which). In any event, they've since been
withdrawn from n service. There was also an ugly looking APC with a Rheinmetal
20mm using a simi lar chassis, that wasn't too bad, except for requiring
troops to exit from top hatc hes,
> On the topic of Laserburn figures, there are several vehicles in the
Where can I order Laserburn minis? Do they or one of their retailers have a
web site? Are there pictures available on the web?
Thanks,
> Ted Arlauskas wrote:
> Where can I order Laserburn minis? Do they or one of their retailers
Laserburn was the name of Tabletop Games' rules and figure range. The figures
& models are now owned by Tabletop Miniatures (a new company of no relation to
TT
G)
who I believe are somewhere in darkest Wales. However, AFAIK (and refer back
to Jon's comments a couple of days ago) they're having some difficulties in
production. I'm not aware of any website or e-mail address for them (the
last o ne I gave out on the list turned out to be long defunct).
Sorry I can't be of any more help.
On Wed, 11 Oct 2000 09:00:04 +0100, Tony Francis <tony.francis@kuju.com>
wrote:
> Laserburn was the name of Tabletop Games' rules and figure range. The
I have "Imperial Commander" which is related to Laserburn. It came out in the
early 80s. One of the people involved in it is Bryan Ansell, of Warhammer
40,000 fame. You can definitely see some shadows of WH40K in this game. It's
not a bad looking rules set, if pretty basic by today's standards.
> On Wed, 11 Oct 2000 09:00:04 +0100, Tony Francis
It's
> not a bad looking rules set, if pretty basic by today's standards.
IC was the "mass(ish) combat" version of Laserburn, LB being a skirmish
system. IIRC, IC could handle at least a company or two per side. Round
about the same time, Citadel (this was in pre-GW merger days, remember)
produced "Spacefarers", another skirmish game, to go with their figures of the
same name, which had a lot of similarities to the laserburn stuff
(unsurprisingly given the involvement of Mr.Ansell with both companies).
Robert any idea where I can put my hands on these Matchbox plastic kits?
Or am
I confused and they're diecast. Any info would help me out, I'm having a heck
of a time. - Aron
"Robert W. Hofrichter" <RobHofrich@peoplepc.com> on 10/06/2000 07:30:27
PM
Please respond to gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
To: gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
cc: (bcc: Aron Clark/AM/Avid)
Subject: Re: [SG] in seach of 15mm
So true--
Matchbox makes
1/92 scale MLRS
1/102 scale M1A1 Abrams
1/102 scale AAV-7
1/92 scale M4 Sherman
1/92 M2 Bradley
and someone (I think its MAtchbox, but can't remember) makes a 1/100
appx scale M60
And around here, each of those costs less than $1 US (a heckuva lot cheaper
than Rocco).
Rob
[quoted original message omitted]
Look next to the Hot Wheels, these are all Die Cast
Michael Brown
[quoted original message omitted]