SG II Snipers and the spirit of the game [CLEAN STAMP]

> Cleats Balentine wrote:

It really does, though. No sniper would risk giving away his position just to
make a platoon keep their heads down for a few minutes.

That would be a huge waste of his time & effort, and could possibly get him
killed for nothing.

> At 12:54 PM 12/13/99 -0500, you wrote:

Well I have to disagree but with a caveat. A lot of times people think of
snipers as some guy that went to sniper school for two years and is as good a
shot as Lee Harvey. But the fact is most snipers have a specialist weapons and
have received some training but are working for Companies or even platoons. A
marine and even US rifle companies (TOEs change all the times) occasionally
have snipers right in their TOE at Company HQ. Their job of course apart from
observation is combat related and they are not at the level where they are
being sent to kill some division commander or assasinate the president,
they';re roles include rearguard tyupe stuff as
mentioned above. Same goes for Rusain ex-Soviet TOEs where you even have
snipers at the platoon level. These are guys who shoot the best onhe range so
they're given a sniper rifle (SVD), not strategic assetts. (That's a whole
'nuther bred of sniper and yes you are right those guys would not be doing
thise kind of work mentioned above.)

There are plenty of examples of sniper's (Hey actually they're sharpshooters)
doing that kind of stay behind, slowing up teh whole compnay kind of delaying
work as part of the main battle. (and takingg the heavy losses that go with
tryingto do that) WW2 Normandy, Russia Front, Vietnam etc etc. Even in specops
it happens on occasion. In training we once were being chased by a platoon and
our sniper peeled off and picked off 11 guys (using MILES gear) while we
hauled ass out of there. It was in Utah desert mountainous type environment
and we could see even though we'd put a mile between us and them they were
still pinned down thinking someone was still shooting at them or hunting them.
Pretty funny.

In SG2 terms it's a matter of quality/expereience and mission. Perhaps
lesser quality guys being used in that capacity have a much lower possibility
of staying hidden?

> On 13-Dec-99 at 16:45, Glover, Owen (oglover@museum.vic.gov.au) wrote:

> Anyway, the original question was about a sniper taking a shot that

So are all snipers elite? Maybe we should add Veteran and Average snipers
(average unit, veteran sniper, green unit, average sniper)?

Just look at Saving Pvt. Ryan, that squad had a sniper.:)

Some big snips taken out........

At least I've brought a few SGers into the light!

OK, "in my defence".....

IMHO the rules for snipers are referring to the specialist sniper(Bn Level
specially trained etc). Look at the shoot n scoot rules, quality checks etc.
These would really be beyond the average rifleman (albeit he is a better
marksman). House rules have been put forward by a number of people to allow
the use of sharpshooters ala Sov Motor Rifle SVD and the likes at platoon
level and I like them for playing special or advanced rules type games.

My personal experience with snipers in Australian and Brit Army has only had
them at Bn level. Generally you will only have two or three sniper pairs in
the unit and they are always tasked with Bn level missions. In this case the
snipers rely on the stealth and fieldcraft to protect them rather than use of
firepower.

Anyway, the original question was about a sniper taking a shot that couldn't
possibly hit so therefore would the target be automatically suppressed? To
reiterate, so we don't lose sight of the original question, if the shot is
beyond the fifth range band or the cover bonus cause the closed die shift to
go over d12 defence die then I say that the target doesn't take a suppression
as no shot is fired.

There you have it,

Cheers,

Owen G
> -----Original Message-----

Hmm, and the task given the squad was directly from the President of the USA
correct? That's a strategic op if ever there was one!

That guy was a special character if ever there was one!

> -----Original Message-----

On Mon, 13 Dec 1999 16:51:02 -0500 (EST), Roger Books
<books@mail.state.fl.us> wrote:

> So are all snipers elite? Maybe we should add Veteran and Average

The squad was a special detachment. The sniper was actually attached to the
company, not a platoon or squad.

I looked at the sniper rule from a straight rules interpretation point of
view. It doesn't actually state SPECIFICALLY, of course, what happens beyond
range band 5 (or less, due to cover shifting the die). There is a point in the
sniper section that says, "When a sniper fires, the shot is resolved in a
similar way to the normal firing process for a support or heavy weapon, but
with a few variations...". Under small arms fire, the rules state, "Small arms
fire is effective up to the point where the RANGE DIE would be GREATER than
D12 - when this limit is reached then effective small arms fire is
impossible."

I interpret the sniper rule as thus: 1) it follows the standard combat rules
with some exceptions; 2) range bands are defined in the standard small arms
combat rules section; 3) small arms fire beyond a D12 range band is
impossible, thus it can not be done; 4) by extrapolation from point 1,
therefore, sniper fire beyond a D12 range band is impossible and thus can not
be done.

So, whether or not it would cause automatic suppression is irrelevant, as
sniper fire beyond a D12 range band is impossible and thus can not be
attempted. This makes sense, as sniper range bands are double the size of
small arms fire range bands.

That's my interpretation, anyway.

On Tue, 14 Dec 1999 09:34:39 +1000, "Glover, Owen"
<oglover@museum.vic.gov.au> wrote:

> Hmm, and the task given the squad was directly from the President of

Actually, the order came from General Marshall, I think. I'll pay more
attention when I watch it this weekend.

> >Just look at Saving Pvt. Ryan, that squad had a sniper. :)

Yes and no. The squad was a special detachment from a special unit (a ranger
battalion)- but the US 1944 TOE assigned 12 men to a rifle squad- 1 BAR,
10
riflemen (one or two with SMGs/carbines), and one 1908 Springfield... to
be used as a sniper for the squad. Many squads gave up certain weapons, and

gained others (like an extra BAR). But it is still well within reason for a
regular US Army squad in WWII to have a sniper.

On Mon, 13 Dec 1999 20:43:58 PST, "Scott Case" <tgunner@hotmail.com> wrote:

> But it is still well within reason for a

True. But it's implied in Saving Private Ryan that the sniper is the only one
under Miller's command. Miller, being a company commander, appears to have
only had one sniper. Or, only one sniper to survive the initial beach landing
(although the implication is he was the only sniper on the Higgins boat).

In a message dated 12/13/99 12:09:03 PM Central Standard Time,
Rick@esr.com writes:

<< > I really must take exception with Owen's inference
> that using a sniper to get suppressions goes against

It really does, though. No sniper would risk giving away his position just to
make a platoon keep their heads down for a few minutes.

That would be a huge waste of his time & effort, and could possibly get him
killed for nothing.
> [quoted text omitted]

But in combined actions, where the sniper or marksman is working with a squad
or larger unit, firing in suppression attempts is a pretty common practice, it
lets the squad move on the opposing unit, while taking much less fire in
return. Most troops are more scared of snipers than auto-fire, and will
freeze in place when sniped at.

When I was in the Army ( longer ago than i want to remember) it was fairly
common for our unit to detach our best shots into separate "sniper teams"
(they didn't have the training of real snipers, but they were called that) who
used just that tactic. This is an unusual tactic, definately not "by the
book", but our CO was an unusual guy, and we usually won any exercise we were
in, because of his unorthodox tactics. It definately worked, as we would

often hold up large groups by sending 2 or 3 man teams to plink at them, from
different areas. Drove them nuts...

John