SG II: Flame vs. armor

Does anybody on-list have any working knowledge of
flame vs. armor in modern times?

I wonder if partisans with molotov cocktails have *any* chance of getting a
mission kill on a modern armored vehicle.

A good representation if your looking for visual examples is in the video "The
Beast of War" where Mujahadin close assault a coupleof Russian tanks in their
village.

Buck

> Geoffery R wrote:

> A good representation if your looking for visual examples is in the

If I'm not mistaken the best way to use those is by throwing them on the
engine decking. The engine'll overheat (and catch fire?) by the hot air being
sucked in. Other than that I can't really see them doing much damage. Look at
news reports about riots in Northern Ireland, those jeeps don't seem to mind a
little fire (paintjob excepted).

That is unless the tanker has his head sticking out of the tank. But, let's
not start that thread again.

In a future battlefield that relies on sensors, flame attacks that stick to
the AFV might temporarily blind it. It also may be used in conjunction with
heat-seeking weapons. Or if the fire produces more smoke than fire.
Other than that I don't see a lot of use.

CFE may be susceptible to the "engine overheating" or "oxygen starvation"
from sticky-flame attacks, but HMTs (Fuel Cell) or FGPs (Fusion) should
be fairly immune.

Another attack along the same lines may include "paint" grenades that spread a
opaque, radar absorbing or reflecting paint over the target obscuring its
sensors. I believe that someone on the list suggested this late last year, but
I forget both who and when.

-----
Brian Bell bkb@beol.net
-----

> -----Original Message-----

The flame form teh MCs does nothing to the armor in itself and never did, it's
when it leaks into the engine vents and other r whatnot that the tank gets in
trouble. The same would occur nowadays, though most modern AFvs have some sort
of fire suppression system which might stop a seroius fire..

Ooops unless you are saying armor in the general sense of the qword, like
tank.

> Cleats Balentine wrote:

> Does anybody on-list have any working knowledge of

> Does anybody on-list have any working knowledge of

> I wonder if partisans with molotov cocktails have

Modern AFV's have air intakes and vents for their engines... if you dumped a
bottle of burning fuel into one, it might do *something*.

Unless the AFV has an on-boar fire supression system in the engine bay.

Now if you chucked one into an open hatch...

AFV with built in spit-roast, mmmmmm.

I don't care much for the oven roast though.

Neath Southern Skies - http://users.mcmedia.com.au/~denian/
[mkw] Admiral Peter Rollins; Task Force Zulu
[pirates] Prince Rupert Raspberry; Base Commander

> -----Original Message-----

> On Tue, 15 Feb 2000 adrian.johnson@sympatico.ca wrote:

> Modern AFV's have air intakes and vents for their engines... if you

Many that have been designed for IS work have been getting flame
resistant components on the engine (Nomes/metal/asbestos) fittings and
wireing. This makes the molotov cocktail less than useful.

> Unless the AFV has an on-boar fire supression system in the engine

The fire supression system may help to a degree if there is some medium to
minor damage, if a hellfire missile strikes the turret, I doubt there

is much to be gained from the largest bottle of Halon..

What about the effects of a World War II-era Crocodile
(A Brit tank with a flame thrower) on modern armor? Would it have any shot of
getting either a minor or major impact (to put it in SG II terms) on a modern
AFV?

An acquaitance of mine said the US currently has no flame throwing weapons in
their TO&Es. Can anyone confirm or deny the validity of that report?

> --- Ryan M Gill <monty@arcadia.turner.com> wrote:

Hmm, the US Army may not have Flame Throwers as such but most armies do have
incendiary weapons; White Phos and similar.

> -----Original Message-----

Since we're talking about fire-based weapons, what about
aerosol/fuel-air
bombs? Any ideas on how to make those work in DS II?

Brian B

----Original Message Follows----
From: Cleats Balentine <kevinbalentine@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
To: gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
Subject: Re: SG II: Flame vs. armor
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 15:51:34 -0800 (PST)

What about the effects of a World War II-era Crocodile
(A Brit tank with a flame thrower) on modern armor? Would it have any shot of
getting either a minor or major impact (to put it in SG II terms) on a modern
AFV?

An acquaitance of mine said the US currently has no flame throwing weapons in
their TO&Es. Can anyone confirm or deny the validity of that report?

> --- Ryan M Gill <monty@arcadia.turner.com> wrote:

Standard HEF artillery. A big boom, is a big boom (unless you're using nukes).

Neath Southern Skies - http://users.mcmedia.com.au/~denian/
[mkw] Admiral Peter Rollins; Task Force Zulu
[pirates] Prince Rupert Raspberry; Base Commander

> -----Original Message-----

It's true there are no flame throwing weapons save for a few M202 Flash flame
rocket launchers, but I haven't personally seen one of those in about five
years.

The Russians actually brought back flame throwers for combat in Chechnya. And
btw lost a few tanks to molotovs.

Los

> Cleats Balentine wrote:

> What about the effects of a World War II-era Crocodile

> Brian Bilderback wrote:

> Since we're talking about fire-based weapons, what about

HEF. If you feel adventurous, up the cost by 50% and let it ignore
dug-in status.

[Please snip your post, BTW - a page or so of old but rather irrelevant
posts cut from below the two lines above]

Regards,

> On Tue, 15 Feb 2000 adrian.johnson@sympatico.ca wrote:

oh, are we crossing over with the using-GW-cavalry thread here? i wasn't
aware boars had engine compartments in need of fire suppression:).

tom

> Tom Anderson wrote:

Orks on Boars engaging in suppressive fire?

> >

Chuckle, chuckle, chuckle...:)

OK, I'm suitably chastised

> Brendan Robertson wrote:

> Standard HEF artillery. A big boom, is a big boom (unless you're using

> Neath Southern Skies - http://users.mcmedia.com.au/~denian/

> -----Original Message-----
There does need to be some way of representing them in DSII, maybe a
half-size nuke, without the rad effects...

My 2 credits...

John