So last night I set up to embed the mechanics of close assault in my mind and
immediately ran into problems not covered by the rules that I may have to
house rule.
Situation, two squads of 4 are being activitad by the platoon commander to
close assault an enemy squad of 8 that is 10 inches away.
commo rolls made, close assault rolls made all around.
First squad (an elite squad) rolls 6 on its' combat move and moves into
contact. Second squad (green) rolls a 1.
I now have a half contact, how is this handled? Seemingly by the rules I
should fire the whole squad of 8 at the green squad. Proposed house rule, do 1
round of combat with the elite squad and the squad of 8, no fire at the green
squad.
OK, Ran fire, green squad makes confidence test and continues (they didn't,
but I modified the die roll) and moves into contact. 3 squaddies remaining.
Run combat, elite squad kills 3, loses 1. Green squad loses 2, kills 1.
squad of 8 (now 4) makes morale. Now, the confidence roll
for my remaining two squads, is the needed roll LV+3
or does the elite squad do LV+1 and the green squad LV+2.
Can I have half break and run while the other half stays and fights?
I noticed that armour has no affect on a close assault, true?
One other thing that concerned me. An elite squad with assault shotguns closes
with a green squad. The elite squad
rolls a d12, the green squad gets a -2 die shift. d6->d4->???.
Can they fight back?
> -----Original Message-----
[Bri] I would suggest that if any unit makes it to the target of the
Close Assault (CA), the defenders do NOT get final defensive fire. Also, to
keep it simple, I would then roll the second combat movement for the unit that
did not make it before any combat.
> OK, Ran fire, green squad makes confidence test and continues
[Bri] Figure each squad seperatly for the morale test. So the elite
squad
would test at +1 and the green at +2
> Can I have half break and run while the other half stays
[Bri] Yes. You can have 1 squad break and run, while the other continues
the CA.
> I noticed that armour has no affect on a close assault, true?
[Bri] Yes.
> One other thing that concerned me. An elite squad with
[Bri] I would suggest that even an open shift cannot push the die
difference beyond d12 to d4.
> Roger Books
My comments above marked by [Bri]
---
In message <2A5C49585B46EC42BB99D3000F725D47074717@col1smx01.dscc.dla.mil>,
"Be
> ll, Brian K (Contractor)" writes:
I've picked up Piquet, which has a somewhat similar sliding dice
system. It bottoms out at d4, but is open ended with d12 to d12+1,
d12+2, etc... Your maximum value is 12, however.
An interesting unofficial variation I saw on a website was instead of
d12+1, make it d12 with a re-roll (which, if you use, you have to
keep; i.e., you get the last, not the highest). d12+2 becomes up to
two re-rolls, etc... If you wanted, you could even do d4-1 where the
> Andy Cowell wrote:
We tend towards rolling a d12+d4 (d6, d8, etc.), counting only the
highest roll. This means that the offensive is not improved, but you avoid the
lowest results, making the contest safer.
---
> One other thing that concerned me. An elite squad with assault
How about using:
D4 -> D4-1 -> D4-2
?
And at the other end:
D10 -> D12 -> D12+1 -> D12+2 -> D12+3 -> D20
Where the averages are:
5.5 6.5 7.5 8.5 9.5 10.5
?
> Andrew Martin wrote:
You could go d4 -> d2 (any dice, odd = 1, even = 2, or d6, 1-3 = 1, 4-6
= 2, or just toss a coin!)
> And at the other end:
The problem with adding modifiers to die scores is that the distribution
changes - D12+3 -> D20 has the same mean but a wildly different
distribution.
Assuming I set my spreadsheet up correctly, I came up with the following
d12 beats d6 71% of the time, loses 21% of the time
d12+1 beats d6 79% of the time, loses 14% of the time
d12+2 beats d6 86% of the time, loses 8% of the time
d12+3 beats d6 92% of the time, loses 4% of the time
d20 beats d6 83% of the time, loses 13% of the time
So the shift to d20 is definitely _not_ an advantage
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> On Thu, 29 Mar 2001, Tony Francis wrote:
> Andrew Martin wrote:
Guys, before you get all carried away....
Do you WANT to raise the odds further than D12 to D4? No matter HOW good
you are, there is always some risk in hand-to-hand. By reducing one die
below d4 or raising the other babove D12, you are giving even more causem to
rush in the one elite badass superdude, and waste a whole legion of green
sorryasses. "Oh, see, I didn't roll a 1.. That means you guys are gonna lose,
all of you!"
I don't think this is the desired effect. The odds of D12 vs D4 (approx. 80%
badass wins, 12.5% sorryass wins, 8% draw) seem harsh enough already?
Cheers,
As I stated before, I would prefer it to stop at d12:d4.
I also like Tom Barclay/Los' ganging up rules used in "A Grey Day to
Die":
> From http://fox.nstn.ca/~kaladorn/Gaming/AGreyDayToDieForumPage.htm
Rationale: In SG2 close combat resolution, it is rather revolting to see a
Veteran defender engage 9 Green troops, roll a 7 (mediocre or moderately good
roll) and just tell them not to bother to roll any dice because they're all
dead. A modifier should fix this. Ratio Effect 1:1 As Normal 2:1 Outnumbered
figure shifts down 1 3:1 (or greater) Outnumbered figure shifts down 2
-----
Brian Bell bkb@beol.net.
-----
> -----Original Message-----
> At 07:17 AM 3/29/01 -0500, you wrote:
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> On Thu, 29 Mar 2001, Bell, Brian K (Contractor) wrote:
> As I stated before, I would prefer it to stop at d12:d4.
Which fixes that problem. I agree, I like these rules. We used them last
weekend as well.
Still, I see no need to give any _individual_ figure MORE than 88%
chance of not losing. So using the above rules, all the advantage a super
duper armed to the teeth close combat terror guy will get is that even 3:1 he
might still be fighting with a d12 vs d6 or somesuch. Sounds quite horrible to
me. The poor sap.;)
Cheers,
Doesn't that veteran have to make a confidence check
at +8 just to get into close combat with 9 greens? I
think I'm right on this, but I don't have my book with me.
If so, even a veteran 1 only has a 10 percent chance of ever getting into that
situation, he would have to roll a 10 to pass. A veteran 2 could never pass
the confidence check.
--- "Bell, Brian K (Contractor)"
> <Brian.Bell@dscc.dla.mil> wrote:
http://fox.nstn.ca/~kaladorn/Gaming/AGreyDayToDieForumPage.htm
> Close Assault - Numbers Do Count!
iD8DBQE6wyMNJXH58oo6ncURAoRkAKDqp6P1vnSPfh9/WR3hqeLWYHWvQQCfQx+x
> > MIzrG4S5PthIHx56Ph9kmSo=
No. To make the assault, it is only based on the unit's confidence level.
To stand against the assault, the odds are used.
So the single CO/Vet/1 could attack at TL 0.
The 8 CO/Grn/3's would roll to stand the assault at TL+1.
If the situation is reversed (8 CO/Grn/3's attack a single CO/Vet/1),
the Greens would roll to assault at TL0 and the Vet would roll to stand at
TL+8.
In either case (if the defender stands), the Vet need only roll 7 or better to
kill all 8 of the green troops without a scratch.
This is why I think that Tom & Los' rule is good.
Another option would be to make each side roll for each paired elements. That
is in the 1 Vet vs 8 Greens situation. Each Green would roll once. and the Vet
would roll 8 times. Each pair of rolls would be compared seperatly. This
increases the chance that one of the Green's will get lucky (or the Vet will
get unlucky). This, may slow down the game, however.
-----
Brian Bell bkb@beol.net
-----
> -----Original Message-----
On 30-Mar-01 at 09:19, Bell, Brian K (Contractor)
(Brian.Bell@dscc.dla.mil) wrote: > No. To make the assault, it is only based
on the unit's confidence level.
> To stand against the assault, the odds are used.
By the shift method the d6 versus d10 gets 8 shifts becoming d12 vs d4. The
vet goes down about 79%.
By the roll against every one the vet goes down 99.98% of the time.
In message <2A5C49585B46EC42BB99D3000F725D47074726@col1smx01.dscc.dla.mil>,
"Be
> ll, Brian K (Contractor)" writes:
Why not limit the number of casualties a single figure can cause to, say, 2?
Then the Vet "loses" the combat, and IIRC, in order to remain, has to pass a
test based on odds. Sure, you may have good chances to do a few casualties,
but if you live you're bound to lose
Outnumbered 8:1, the vet should go down almost every time. Sometimes
descression IS the better part of valor.
---
Brian Bell bkb@beol.net ICQ: 12848051 AIM: Rlyehable The Full Thrust Ship
Registry:
http://www.ftsr.org
---
[quoted original message omitted]