[SG] Another weekend question

A vehicle is hit, it is immobilized. The crew test for bail out and do. The
vehicle is an AIFV. The crew bailing is the commander of the armour force.
Inside the AIFV, an infantry squad is sitting. The rules don't seem to
indicate clearly whether they need to make a bail out check (and whether there
should be a modifier if the vehicle crew themselves beat feet!). Thoughts?

> A vehicle is hit, it is immobilized. The crew test

I'd say the crew tests. If it fails, it and the squad both bail. If it passes,
the squad tests. If the squad fails, it bails out by

On Mon, 15 Jul 2002 23:32:40 -0400, "Thomas Barclay" <kaladorn@magma.ca>
wrote:

> A vehicle is hit, it is immobilized. The crew test

Infantry bail out is rather vague. See my site for house rules (though I'm
sure I don't take this situation into account).

I would have the squad make a test for bail out and handle them separately
from the crew bailing out. Or, you can make the test for the crew and just
assume that the crew screaming, "Bail out!" is enough to get the squaddies out
as well.

> At 10:58 AM -0500 7/16/02, Allan Goodall wrote:

I have to point out something here. Certain vehicles only have certain ways
for the infantry to get out or not. If the squad leader is sitting at the rear
ramp with the lever at hand, he's pretty much going to have final say about
the crunchies getting out or not. Some vehicles may just have manually
operated doors, but others will be more complex.

Also, if the infantry are trained not to get out until told because certain
things might kill them just as sure (area or point defense systems) when close
to a vehicle under specific circumstances.

Of course if the track is still under power and still moving at 20mph over
rough ground, 'debussing' with out the consent of the crew will be a bad idea
too.

Hey, John. How many infantry riders have been killed (for real) at NTC by
debussing under fire at the wrong time?

> Allan Goodall wrote:

> On Mon, 15 Jul 2002 23:32:40 -0400, "Thomas Barclay"
<kaladorn@magma.ca>
> wrote:
Having the crew bail out but the infantry carry on as normal would seem
a little incongruous (and vice-versa). Either it's safe to stay in the
vehicle, or it isn't.

Tony:
> Having the crew bail out but the infantry carry on as normal would seem

a little incongruous (and vice-versa). Either it's safe to stay in the
vehicle, or it isn't.

I can see the squad bailing with the crew hanging tough. I can't see the crew
bailing while the squad sits tight. I mean, what's the squad going to do?
"We'll just sit hit in a point target, unable to drive or shoot back because
our crew is gone, while the people who've already shot us once get lined up
for another shot. Yeah, sounds like a plan!"

> At 5:17 PM +0100 7/16/02, Tony Francis wrote:

> Having the crew bail out but the infantry carry on as normal would

Serioiusly. What idiots would stay in the vehicle if the driver, gunner and
commander yell bail out and then flee through their hatches or escape doors?

On the other hand, I still wonder if the vehicle is still operable, whether
the passengers would be as likely to bail out. Are we talking
about a thrown/blown track here or are we talking about an engine
compartment fire? The latter should result in a crew/passenger bail
out, the former shouldn't. Espeically if you're in a kill zone. Once the
vehicle comes to a stop, likely it would make sense for the squad leader to
get his guys out of the vehicle and firing weapons.

I've got a question in on the Ferret list for the guys that were in Northern
Ireland running around in Bandit Country and being shot at with RPGs. Does
someone have a vietnam vet to ask?

On Tue, 16 Jul 2002 17:17:04 +0100, Tony Francis
<tony@brigademodels.co.uk> wrote:

> Having the crew bail out but the infantry carry on as normal would seem

> a little incongruous (and vice-versa). Either it's safe to stay in the

My feeling is that they will probably almost always bail. My own house rules
allow the squad to bail for free but require a test to stay in the vehicle.

My own simplified preference given the question was to allow the crew to test
and if they failed then everyone bailed out. I liked Chris' suggestion better,
though. Test for the crew, if they bail everyone bails. If they don't bail,
test for the squad anyway.

On Tue, 16 Jul 2002 12:30:24 -0400, Ryan M Gill <rmgill@mindspring.com>
wrote:

> Serioiusly. What idiots would stay in the vehicle if the driver,

Here's the house rule that I use. I'm going to have to rewrite it with the
regard to both a vehicle crew and a squad in the vehicle.

Vehicle Bail Out Modifications

The Stargrunt II rules are somewhat unclear as to what happens to a squad
inside a vehicle when the vehicle is disabled. The interpretation I use, which
was assumed by several people on the GZG mailing list, is that when a vehicle
is disabled the squad gets to bail out of the vehicle for free. However, the
squad is automatically suppressed once it bails out, due to it having been
fired on. As per the vehicle rules, the squad may have to make a morale roll
due to sustaining casualties.

A squad won't always want to bail out of a disabled vehicle. While it's
usually very unhealthy to remain in a disabled vehicle, sometimes it is a
better option for the squad than bailing out. The vehicle bail out rule
modifications are as follows:

- On a non-penetrating hit, the vehicle takes a suppression marker, as
per the rules. The occupants can not leave until this is removed.
- On a penetrating hit that destroys the vehicle, the occupants test for
casualties as normal. They immediately bail out of the vehicle 6 inches, but
they are given a suppression result.
- On a penetrating hit that disables the vehicle, the occupants test for
casualties as normal. The squad may bail out as per a destroyed vehicle, and
are given a suppression result. On a successful Confidence Test of 1/2/4
for
high/med/low motivation troops, the squad may stay in the disabled
vehicle instead of bailing out, but they still receive a suppression marker.
- On a penetrating hit that disables or destroys an already disabled
vehicle, the occupants test for casualties as normal. They immediately bail
out of the vehicle 6 inches, but they are given a suppression result. When a
vehicle is disabled for a second time, it is treated as destroyed for the
purposes of vehicle bail out.

> --- Ryan M Gill <rmgill@mindspring.com> wrote: