Well it seems like the real issue is not so much the capabilities or uses of
PA troops but how prevalant they would be in future armies. Some feel everyone
will be PA, ala the Heinlen's SST universe or Steakley's "Armor". Others feel
that they will be used in limited numbers ala the standard GZG universe or
even the GW universe.
It seems to me that the prevalence of PA would be a function of economics.
Obviously, if you could afford to kit out your whole army with PA, then why
the hell not? But unelss you are in command of a monolithic empire with vast
resources then that'll be a little expensive. What about small countries and
colonies?
Of course it depends on the timeline we are talking about. I suppose at
somepoint in the distant future PA technology, (miniaturization, negative
feedback technologhy, light weight or flexi armor, whatever) might be
accessible enough so that it's no more expensive, in relative terms, than a
hit-tech
soldier's kit of today. I imagine that would have to be pretty far in the
future.
However in the GZG universe, PA troops are expensive to train and equip,
somewhat on a par with armored forces. With what little of the official
universe we've seen, plus what others have written about, they are not the
only type or even dominant type of force. So a nation has to balance a lot of
issues when
deciding to go completely PA or not. (I digress: I have an all-PA army
myself having aquired a shitload of GW minis, plus a buddy of mine just gave
me three packs (3 gross) off small palstic ants and spiders, so now I can have
a good SST scenario!)
Now onto pros and cons of power armor. Pros are rpetty easy to figure out, but
what about cons? Can anyone think of disadvantages to power armor? Besides
economic ones? How does one walk through a mangrove swamp in the stuff without
sinking to the botom? How about endurance? How long can someone reasonably
live in PA without a break, power consumption not withstanding? What if I have
to take a dump? OK what if I have to take a dump every day for a week?What if
I get a hard on? How about recharging powerpacks when you have no logistical
support? (Special ops often works for days to months in hostile territory). At
least the GZG PA suits are very short duration affairs, with the NSL suit
lasting the longest at 48 hours (with unconfortable ramifications for the
wearer). SST and Steakly's ARMOR PA suits are not very long duration affairs
either.
I don't know, just thinking out loud. But whenever I think of military
technology, the first thing that comes to mind are not the book specs of the
equipment as most wargamers usually do, but the practical application of the
equipment. Factors that all go towards limiting the effectiveness of even the
best paper-looking wazoo gizmo.
Los
> John Skelly wrote:
> 1. I imagine most skirmishes will be small (Brigade or smaller) in the
It's a good and reasonalble point to assume that many if not most battles will
be quick strikes where you put your people down somewhere in the vicinity.
That has PA written all over it. But what about huge planetary battles? Civil
Wars? Revolutions? There will probably be more of those in the future just
like today. In fact they always remain the prevallant type of combat
throughout history. Why would that change in the future?
> 3. PA will be airtight making it great for harsh/vacc environments,
Maybe so, but I would imagine you want to limit the anount of time spent on
internal resources as much as possible and save that for the field.Then again,
at a bare minimum, you would need an external power/water/envirofeed to
hook into the lander as you are heading in.
> Don't get me wrong, I love tanks and big armored formations. I just
Well, your assumption that powers have all thes extra ships sitting around to
hkeep fleets standing in orbit is something I'd take issue with. I just don't
buy the unlimited resources of the future take on things. Apart from that,
your arguments make sense.
> You wrote:
> sinking to the botom? How about endurance? How long can someone
If it breaks can the unit armorer have it up and running, can a unit afford to
carry spares, and does it have the organic transport to do so?
> ---- los wrote:
this is it.
> It seems to me that the prevalence of PA would be a function of
also true. of course, we all have different vsisions of the nature of the
future economy!
> Obviously, if you could afford to kit out your whole army with PA,
or you have a moderate-sized republic and your
industrial technology is 300 years ahead of what we have now. which i imagine
it will be by 2300.
> What about small countries and
small countries/colonies still have PA, just smaller armies (:-)).
> I imagine that would have to be pretty far in the
we tend to overestimate the rate of progress in the short term and
underestimate it in the long term. i think this is one of Clarke's laws.
> However in the GZG universe, PA troops are expensive to train and
i get a twinge whenever i hear 'official background'. this is one of the prime
reasons i fled GW. the point of
GZG is that (much worked-over point) it is generic.
still, quite right. PA is not necessarily universal.
> Now onto pros and cons of power armor. Pros are rpetty easy to figure
the most important ones, as far as i can see:
- cost
- difficulty of transportation
- lack of stealth
- weight (swamps etc)
- size (forests, jungles, etc) see also stealth
- maintenance, possibly
- increases collateral damage (when your main weapon is a 15mm HMG ...)
> How about endurance? How long can someone reasonably live
astronauts do 6-hour spacewalks, i believe. there could
be a hatch at the back where your buddy pulls out your septic tank, empties it
out and puts it back.
> How about recharging powerpacks when you have no logistical support?
this is a problem, unless you have a really small fusion plant or something.
maybe there is no squad weapon, but
someone carries a mini-tokamak? solar cells?
> I don't know, just thinking out loud. But whenever I think of military
totally. we need to see all sides of a question.
I'm not trying to counteract your vsion of the future. But to me, at least,
it's interesting to figure out the particulars of how PA works and it's
practicality rather than "Oh it's just going to be like this in my future." (I
know you aren't saying that, just tyring to clatrify whay I'm discussing these
points.)
> tom.anderson@altavista.net wrote:
> i get a twinge whenever i hear 'official background'.
So you claim. But the fact is many if not most of the people on this mailing
list, despite claims to the opposite do a fair a mount of gaming which centers
loosely or tightly on the GZG Universe, their official powers, and other
invented powers that coexist in that universe. SO using the GZG technology is
a rational and relevant point of comparison. Because after all if everyone is
playing solely in their own little sandbox, it makes the playground a bit
lonlier. <g>
> astronauts do 6-hour spacewalks, i believe.
Sure. bug difference between a spacewalk, (not taking away from the
difficulties and excitement of that) and fighting in combat for your life. But
six hours seems a cakewalk in PA as long as you can piss.
> there could be a hatch at the back where your buddy pulls out your
Yikes, now that is a buddy!:0 For pissing you could catherterize yourself,
though that's a painful proposition. There's the piss tube approach also. But
what about umm"number two"? <g> I don't see the tube thing working that good.
Can diet and biocheical processes slow that function for the duration of the
PA engagement (Say up to 48 hours max?) Damn I wish heinlen was more specific.
> > How about recharging powerpacks when you have no logistical
Sounds like the fusion plant is the way to go (Now we're getting into
Battlemech). Seems to me solar cells are grossly overrated especially in an
atmosphere. I'd hate to have to rely on tat iffy prospect. Maybe the split is
a fusion plant recharger at the company or battalion level. Power Cells
> [quoted text omitted]
Here's another thought. Most think of combat suuits as armored things, built
to plod along a varying speeds, dishing out and taking punishment. But does
anyone ever remember the SPI wargame called STARSOLDIER? Here you didn't have
a PA troopers. He was in a cybernetic smart soon and carried by a grav pack.
It was electronice intensive and relied heavily on speed, electroni
camouflage, ECM and ECCM.
> You wrote:
> umm"number two"? <g> I don't see the tube thing working that good. Can
Three letters.
M
R
E
Can clog you up for a week.
MREs do bind ya up. But they have the best cheese spread in the
world!!!
Would future PA have a straw that dispenses it right into your mouth? Forget
all my other posts my vision is about cheese spread. What about the
crackers......
> -----Original Message-----
Can
> diet and >biocheical processes slow that function for the duration of
> You wrote:
> MREs do bind ya up. But they have the best cheese spread in the
You eat that stuff? Sick, sick man. I use it in lieu of modelling clay for
mini repair.
> Would future PA have a straw that dispenses it right into your mouth?
Only if they want people with taste buds to desert.
> Forget all my other posts my vision is about cheese spread. What
Those are for field expedient armor repair. Just a hair better than hardtack.
> John Atkinson wrote:
I've never had one, but somebody told me that MRE was three lies in one name.