Scenarious

Well, the attack on the World Trade Center (both buildings have now collapsed)
is certainly to lead to some scenarious for SG.

The estimates were 100K people in the two buildings, we'll never know.

> Roger Books wrote:

Sorry, I don't see how you can even consider that right now.

Yeah, it bugged me too how they start talking financial news on the newscasts
too.... where to shift the dollar.....

I can understand it, sort of. But I still think it's inappropriate.

Mike Hudak mihudak@state.pa.us

Fact is, there's nothing out there you can't do..... Yeah, even Santa Claus
believes in you.....

Dr Teeth and the Electric Mayhem,"Can you picture that", Muppet Movie
Soundtrack

PA Watershed Conference
October 5-6, More Info. at
http://www.pawatersheds.org/2001wsconf

> -----Original Message-----

[quoted original message omitted]

> Well, the attack on the World Trade Center (both

I'm pretty cold blooded, but I think 100,000+ casualties is a bit much
to be talking about scenarios.

I am reminded, though, that a number of our list members are or have been in
military service, many of them in harm's way, where the sudden end of all
hopes is a daily occupational hazard. Through our experience moving minis over
the maps, we know that you can do everything right but sometimes it's still
not good enough. And to the fallen, I don't imagine it's much consolation
whether the total losses for the field are a hundred thousand or only a few.

> On 11-Sep-01 at 11:25, Tony Francis (tony.francis@kuju.com) wrote:

I always look ahead of the present situation. I'm concerned
about the US _retaliation_ that is going to be the result
of this. They parties responsible may or may not be caught in the result, but
it is going to wreak havoc on an already unstable world situation.

Me either -- this has been a declaration of war.

-- Rick

[quoted original message omitted]

> On 11-Sep-01 at 12:11, Rick Rutherford (Rick@esr.com) wrote:

> At 10:53 AM -0400 9/11/01, Roger Books wrote:

What? Get out of the bldg before it falls down?

> The estimates were 100K people in the two buildings,

In addition to the people gathered around the base. The secondary command post
for the rescue efforts appears to have been at the base of the first collapse.
NYC's primary emergency command post was in one of the two buildings.

> At 11:23 AM -0400 9/11/01, Hudak, Michael wrote:

Not allowing it to affect things is rather important. The terrorist would want
us to collapse financially.

> At 11:39 AM -0400 9/11/01, Roger Books wrote:

Israel certainly isn't going to keep telling us its not our business anymore.

> On 11-Sep-01 at 12:28, Don M (dmaddox1@hot.rr.com) wrote:

I would like nothing more than to see those who
_ordered_ this to die, hell, I'd pull the trigger.

What I don't want to see is a knee-jerk reaction
that puts soldiers into the line of fire without being sure of the
perpetrators, and that is what I expect to see. I expect to see alienation of
marginally friendly countries as we extract those who look like good
scapegoats to the politicians in DC. I expect to see many things that should
remain gaming scenarios and not be occuring in real life. Kind of like I wish
the WTC had remained a scenario in the pentagon and had never made the
transition.

> At 11:09 AM -0700 9/11/01, Don M wrote:

Jumping off the deep end is not the thing. We as American's must take this
very carefully and must not jump to conclusions.

The problem's in the Mid-east are larger than a conventional war. The
Palestinians (If its even them) are backed into a corner. This is their way of
getting our attention. This is not Pearl Harbor, this is something far more
dreadful and awful.

> --- Roger Books <books@jumpspace.net> wrote:

> I would like nothing more than to see those who

This kind of operation, unlike a single isolated terrorist bombing, has to
have left a pretty big trail. I have hopes that the perpetrators WILL be
identified. There will certainly be pressure to do this quickly, but hopefully
it will be done accurately as well.

Once this is done, I wouldn't sell any life insurance to the person(s) or
country that bankrolled this operation. Personally, I'd like to make some
smart bombs out of the world trade center wreckage so that the terrorists who
pulled this off will get to see some of it up close and personal.

> > With Whom?.......................Islamic fundamentalist who did

This is not a place to discuss political affiliations or pet hates. It is
totally inappropriate at this stage to be "pointing the finger" at
_anyone_
and also, totally inappropriate to do it onlist. Express shock and dismay
sure, but keep the political tirades off list.

First let me say that I make no apology for my outburst. I would however like
to clarify my reasons. I was an avid player of modern arms and armour. However
the Falklands war and the death of friends and aquaintances left a dirty taste
in the mouth. I no longer play anything less than 200 years old and mainly
game sci fi. It is "easier". I can in no way contemplate scenarios built
around an incident that happend just a few hours ago and may involve the
deaths of thousands of innocent Americans. The coldness of this approach is
the sort of thinking that made people think they could fight and win a nuclear
war in the 60's and 70's. I wish to distance myself from it as far as
possible. If this gets me thrown off the list so be it. First comment still
stands..

Bob DeAngelis
[quoted original message omitted]

[quoted original message omitted]

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[quoted original message omitted]

Gentlemen and ladies,

I was too bust yesterday to get to this list, so forgive me if this is
inappropriate...

*Please*

I am an American.

I have seen (through my family who don't look so 'white' as I do) that it is a
flawed system striving to rise above it's human weaknesses and foibles.

I love my country.

I am a member of the Defense/Intelligence Community.

I know that not all followers of Islam agree with this act. (As a Christian I
disagree with their theology but would die to defend the
rights of my daughter's friends with Arab-American Fathers (who are
Christian but if they were Islamic...) to practice their faith.)

I also know that the temptation to strike out and someone is strong (ask
me off list but I warn you my answer might be non-PC) but we must be
sure we strike at a target (even if we don't have evidence that would convict
in a court of law) that will affect Terrorists with as little collateral
damage to "...innocents and idiots.." that is humanly and humanely possible.

I would like to suggest anyone who wishes to continue this please do so off
list.

I see enough of this at work currently, can we discuss SF war games instead?

Maybe it's time to post those DS2 scenarios...

Rhetorical question:   Would it be better or worse if someone had posted
a scenario like this *then* it turned out to model what happened? The point
was valid, if poorly received. Replies to my intended rhetorical off list
please.

Gracias,

I compleatly agree. Back to our games. Please.

I do have one small suggestion... How about we all avoid "get the terrorists"
type scenarios for a
while...
At least 'til things return to normal around here.

On DS2...Has anyone been posting any scenarios? Has anyone adapted scenarios
from other games? (Ogre, ect?)

Donald Hosford

> Glenn M Wilson wrote:

> Gentlemen and ladies,

(snippage!)

> I would like to suggest anyone who wishes to continue this please do

(snippage!)

> Gracias,

> On 13-Sep-01 at 02:47, Donald Hosford (Hosford.Donald@acd.net) wrote:

I was planning on doing the base Ogre scenario with DS when my rules arrive
through the chaos. May not work if I use stock rules, somehow I doubt an Ogre
would be as tough with the normal rules.

Right now mostly I'm looking to fill out my TOE of hover
vehicles (mostly from GZG/Geohex) to be a match for what
I have in SJG Combine stuff. Unfortunately I can't see the SJG GEVs as hover,
they look more like grav.

What do people use for casualty caps for 6mm(1/285?)?  The
diameter of a straw is too large IMO.

[quoted original message omitted]

I think it will depend on if you are simulating the original weapons or not.
In SJG's Ogre, all weapons are nuclear, and all armor is BPC...something so
hard, only nuclear weapons will disturb it...
In this setting the Ogre makes sense -- it is almost solid BPC armor.
Very tough to kill. If all weapons are normal types, with normal types of
armor, the Ogre is too big. Just drop a big (conventional) weapon on it...

Just my thoughts.

Donald Hosford

> Roger Books wrote:

> I was planning on doing the base Ogre scenario with DS when