scenario ideas [Forwarded with concern] for discussion (but not on Abortion...)

First let me make several points:

1) I do not want to start a discussion on Abortion 2) I do not want to start a
discussion on Abortion 3) I do not want to start a discussion on Abortion 4) I
do not want to start a discussion on Abortion 5) I do not want to start a
discussion on Abortion 6) I do not want to start a discussion on Abortion 7) I
do not want to start a discussion on Abortion 8) I do not want to start a
discussion on Abortion 9) I do not want to start a discussion on Abortion 10)
I do not want to start a discussion on Abortion

Hopefully that is clear.

Those who know me should have realized three things -

1) On the abortion issue I make the Pontiff look liberal but I do not want to
start a flame war so please stay on the "scenario" thread... I have no desire
to discuss the "A" issue...

2) Abortion is an issue that divides Christians and non-Christians
across
many stereotype groupings violently that is best settled non-violently
via each nation's legal process. If such is possible... But not on this
thread. I want to discuss an updated version of the standby ancients scenario
"The girls next door (and stealing them)" in GZG terms.

3) I want to make it clear that I desperately do NOT want to have someone post
on abortion issues at all. I want to discuss the impact of
the article's report and it's implications for war games in DS 2/FT/SG
2.

FWIW, I am only posting this to this particular list because I think we can
stick to the intended topic (scenarios) without moving to flame wars where no
one convinces anyone of anything but how rude they can be. And I have concerns
about that but I hope and think we can explore the issue I am asking about
(scenario ideas) and not abortion. PLEASE!

All the above should be unnecessary but it probably isn't... forgive the
beating the dead horse rant please.

Scenarios discussion:

I will assume the trend spoken about below continues in the early time of the
Tuffleyverse. And that it impacts the actions of the ESU and IC member states.

Please read report from the BBC below and feel free to comment on:

1) scenarios in DS/SG/FT where a "regional/militia"  force goes bride
hunting in a disputed border region or planet to find brides (foreign fathers
might not get a hearing from compliant local officials...) for the troops. How
to set it up, what considerations might be unique to the
scenario, possible force structures/nations involved.

2) Rules that might make the security of the females paramount but minimally
artificially limit the players' options. (In FT all of a sudden the much
maligned NB has a role...)

3) History wise, how might this affect certain debated aspects of the time
line (ESU and IC swallowing India (all of South Asia) and SE Asia) to make
these events more likely to have occurred?

4) History wise again, How might this process lead to identification as
ESU/IC citizens instead of previous assorted national and ethnic labels?

Who would 'disappear'? Who would retain the earlier labels intact (so
significantly so)? Who would retain the label as an identifiable
'hyphenated' name [Chin-Indonesian or Baluchi-Eurasian to pick two at
random]?

Also there have been articles about Asians marrying across certain national
lines and the resulting social chaos as the bureaucracy has problems dealing
with such issues as requiring brides to be to take courses in the culture of
the husband before allowing emigration. I am specifically thinking about
Japanese and Chinese males marrying women from other Asian nations. I believe
it was the BBC again where I saw recent articles on that issue. Add comments
here as you deem it appropriate, please.

Again, scenarios and time line implications.

Gracias, Glenn
[cross fingers, toes, eyes and legs....]

--------- Begin forwarded message ----------
<snip>
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/2723513.stm

Tuesday, 4 February, 2003, 10:51 GMT India's lost girls

Ultrasounds seal the fate of female foetuses

Jill McGivering BBC South Asia correspondent in Punjab

A marriage crisis is hitting thousands of men in parts of rural India which
are running out of potential brides.

The traditional preference for boys instead of girls has led to widespread
abuse of modern
               pre-natal scans.

The technology should protect the health of mother and baby.

But, wrongly used, it is a death sentence for unwanted girls.

The practice of determining the sex of a foetus and aborting girls is illegal,
but widespread.

The worst affected states, such as Haryana and Punjab, now have some of the
most
               skewed sex ratios in the world - and the
proportion of baby girls is still falling.

Buying brides

A whole generation of young men is failing to find brides.

Many are now resorting to "buying" girls from poor communities outside the
region to bear their children.

Government officials raid clinics to make sure doctors are not abusing modern
technology by tipping off parents they were carrying girls.

In many clinics, the illegal and systematic abortion of girls is common
practice.

In Punjab, special prayers of thanks greet the birth of a boy. Prejudice runs
deep. Girls are born into silence.

"People say, you have two girl children, you have done some sins in your past
life," said office manager Surinder Saini.

"With a boy child, people say your generation will propagate, your older age
will be safer. This is the concept of our society."

Combating prejudice

Mr Saini is a fierce campaigner against female foeticide. He and his wife have
two daughters.

But even they aborted their third child after tests showed it was a girl.

All those years of prejudice against girls are finally coming back to haunt
this society.

There is such an
               acute gender
imbalance here that it is causing real social problems.

Young men are coming of marriageable age, only to discover
               there is no-one left for them to
marry.

The young girls who would have been their brides never had the chance to be
born.

The villages are full of frustrated bachelors. In Haryana, a quarter of the
female population has simply disappeared.

Many now see buying wives from outside as their only option.

Foreign imports

"I couldn't find a local girl," said Chandram, who purchased a wife last year
from Bangladesh. "So I had to go outside to get married. But it wasn't cheap."

His bride looked about 15. Now she is thousands of miles from home.

               They have just had their first child - a
baby girl. She looked sickly, struggling to survive.

The ghosts of missing babies are closing in.

               If newly-weds continue with this
brutal practice of eliminating girls, this whole region is on course for
catastrophe.

--------- End forwarded message ----------

> 1) scenarios in DS/SG/FT where a "regional/militia" force goes
for
> the troops. How to set it up, what considerations might be unique

Alarish wouldn't...er, most Alarishi wouldn't raid for wives, but
some might.  And plenty would offer cash.  And some wive-merchants
might plan to keep the cash without turning over the brides...

> 3) History wise, how might this affect certain debated aspects of

Well, the People's Republic of China has the "one family, one child" policy,
so no one is likely to be getting brides from there. I haven't figured out any
plausible means by which the ESU might grab
India--it's even less likely, IMO, than UK/Canada occupying the US.

G'day,

> 2) Rules that might make the security of the females paramount but

I'd see this more as SG territory. You could simply add extra confidence
modifiers for taking losses amongst the captives and making the captives less
than cooperative would just make it that much more interesting.

> 3) History wise, how might this affect certain debated aspects of the

I'd be tempted to skip tat potential hot potato altogether and place it on a
divided colony world. Resources, radiation belts, ozone holes, NRE-like
male only starter colonies etc could all explain needing to draw brides from
elsewhere.

> 4) History wise again, How might this process lead to

Its only a personal opinion, but I'd say these mega nations are so big that
ethnic identity wouldn't get subsumed by aligning to the state. In addition
that leaves it open for independence wars and fragmentation *which normally
follows such large scale imperial expansions eventually).

> Also there have been articles about Asians marrying across certain

You're probably less likely to see this problem after the expansions of the
megastates as they can just mix around what they've got rather than needing to
go cross border, in fact I think they'd be suspicious of going cross border.
Though there would be cultural resistance I could also see a shift in
attitudes to the sex of children as colony worlds open up that actively
encourage the rapid increase in population rate. Though economics can be a
hard one to counteract I guess it comes down to how much the governments of
the GZGverse are willing to subsidise population growth and thus counter
economic pressures adding to cultural traditions and beliefs. Another reason
I'd place it on a poorer colony world, cut off from Earth trade due to Kra'Vak
activities they're be more likely to be feeling the economic pinch, more
likely to slide into cultural belief structures and thus run short on women
(in addition to all the other reasons above). At least as far as my
limited sociology/economics knowledge would suggest ;)

Cheers

[quoted original message omitted]

[quoted original message omitted]

> On Wed, Feb 05, 2003 at 11:43:27PM -0500, Laserlight wrote:

> Alarish wouldn't ...er, most Alarishi wouldn't raid for wives, but

...and the IFed has those "all female crew" ships, right?

Though somehow I don't see this being a terribly successful plan.

> --- Laserlight <laserlight@quixnet.net> wrote:

Oddly enough, that may not be the case. For one thing, I don't think the
policy is all that enforced, particularly in the countryside (which is, of
course, where it's really needed). That's one reason there are a lot of young
girls available for
adoption -- parents abandon their first baby at an orphanage if
it's a girl, hoping for a boy on the second try. For another, I remember one
of the guys who works for us in Shanghai talking
about having a second child -- you just need to pay a bit more
in taxes (or, actually, lose a tax break for only having one child, but same
difference).

The other side of the "finding/buying brides" comes from my stay
in Fushun, in the NE part of China, over this past Christmas and New Year's
(for business... certainly wouldn't have done so for pleasure, too bloody
cold!). There were two other "Westerners" there, one from the US (Michigan,
IIRC) and one from Japan. Both were there because they "found" brides, I'm
guessing from some kind of service. The NE region of China is very
economically depressed, so I'm guessing both the women were trying to get a
better life, at whatever the cost. (I should
also note, though, that everyone was "older" -- in their mid
30's at least, the men were probably both in their 40's.) But while the woman
going to the US spoke at least a little English, the woman going to Japan
spoke very, very little Japanese, and her new husband spoke no Chinese... so
it's not like it'll be an easy move, there.

Anyway, just pointing out that just because there aren't as many children
being born, doesn't mean that there won't be people willing to leave. And that
parts of China may find itself facing the same situation as those areas in
India at some point in time, because they also place a higher value on a male
child.

'Til later,