> I was recently on the receiving end of a demonstration on how to use
Average number of missiles reaching an undefended target = 3.5
Avg dmg/missile = 3.5
Avg dmg/salvo = 12.25
Each PDS on average shoots down.8 missile (includes rerolls) or 2.8 avg damage
points. Therefore, to stop a salvo, you need 4.375 PDS (call it 4 or 5
depending on how optimistic you are). Multiply by the number of salvos you
expect to receive at a time. (The largest PDS suites I see in the Fleet Book
have 6). Bear in mind that shields don't help and only half the damage is
reduced by armor.
Each fighter kills 0.4 missile on average. Each interceptor kills 0.6 on
average. Therefore an interceptor squadron should on average knock out a
complete salvo (of course, you also lose one interceptor, on average, each
time you try this).
Let's say you want a hard kill on a Szent Istvan (60 hull, 14 armor, 4
PDS).
1 salvo is absorbed by the PDS suite. Approximately 2 salvoes will each be
half absorbed by armor, but we're going for the whole things, so let's add
armor and hull together for 74pts.
Divide by 12.25 damage/salvo and you get approximately 6 salvo rounds.
Therefore if you sling 7 salvos simultaneously (and hit, but given that a
Szent has a Thrust 2, how could you miss?), you will in all likelihood see
a small dense nebula where the BDN used to be--or at the very least, one
ensign and three ratings will be frantically applying duct tape and superglue
to the few remaining chunks of bulkhead. On the other hand, if you toss in one
salvo at a time, you will probably scratch its paint but not much more.
(The numbers above are not absolutely exact as I ignore the effects of
overkill against a salvo--if a salvo only turns out to have 1 missile,
the extra kills you'd get from your interceptors or PDS don't carry over.
Insofar as I can tell, this effect is detrimental only to the target, not the
firer).
Fortunately most of the FB ships don't seem to be able to generate more
than two or three salvoes at a time. In a design-your-own competition,
though, I predict we'll see a batch of missile racks.
Hello
My experience of SLM's is the exact opposite of this. In our games using the
FSE we have found them to be a joke weapon. First you have to get within 3" of
the target, then see how many hit, then see how many are shot down, then see
how much damage they do; 4 chances for things to go wrong! We have found that
it's very hard to guess where the enemy is, spreading slavoes increases the
likelyhood but wastes salvoes; in a recent game my battleship's six(6) salvoes
did 1 point of damage! Once the ships have fired them off they are very
vulnerable, being typically lightly armed. One other abuse is to have major
ships accompanied by several couriers, any salvoes that get near the major
ship head for the nearset target, the couriers, and blow them to bits, but
miss the big ship. As a result, the FSE have lost every battle I have seen
them used in, I think that more testing should have gone into these weapons.
Cheers GJS
________________________________________________________________________
_______
To: FTGZG-L@bolton.ac.uk
From: FTGZG-L@bolton.ac.uk on Mon, 17 Aug 1998 12:46 PM
Subject: Re: Salvo Missiles (was UN Ship Nomenklatura)
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Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 21:28:11 -0400
From: laserlight <laserlight@mci2000.com>
Subject: Re: Salvo Missiles (was UN Ship Nomenklatura)
To: FTGZG-L@bolton.ac.uk
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> I was recently on the receiving end of a demonstration on how to use
Average number of missiles reaching an undefended target = 3.5
Avg dmg/missile = 3.5
Avg dmg/salvo = 12.25
Each PDS on average shoots down.8 missile (includes rerolls) or 2.8 avg damage
points. Therefore, to stop a salvo, you need 4.375 PDS (call it 4 or 5
depending on how optimistic you are). Multiply by the number of salvos you
expect to receive at a time. (The largest PDS suites I see in the Fleet Book
have 6). Bear in mind that shields don't help and only half the damage is
reduced by armor.
Each fighter kills 0.4 missile on average. Each interceptor kills 0.6 on
average. Therefore an interceptor squadron should on average knock out a
complete salvo (of course, you also lose one interceptor, on average, each
time you try this).
Let's say you want a hard kill on a Szent Istvan (60 hull, 14 armor, 4
PDS).
1 salvo is absorbed by the PDS suite. Approximately 2 salvoes will each be
half absorbed by armor, but we're going for the whole things, so let's add
armor and hull together for 74pts.
Divide by 12.25 damage/salvo and you get approximately 6 salvo rounds.
Therefore if you sling 7 salvos simultaneously (and hit, but given that a
Szent has a Thrust 2, how could you miss?), you will in all likelihood see
a small dense nebula where the BDN used to be--or at the very least, one
ensign and three ratings will be frantically applying duct tape and superglue
to the few remaining chunks of bulkhead. On the other hand, if you toss in one
salvo at a time, you will probably scratch its paint but not much more.
(The numbers above are not absolutely exact as I ignore the effects of
overkill against a salvo--if a salvo only turns out to have 1 missile,
the extra kills you'd get from your interceptors or PDS don't carry over.
Insofar as I can tell, this effect is detrimental only to the target, not the
firer).
Fortunately most of the FB ships don't seem to be able to generate more
than two or three salvoes at a time. In a design-your-own competition,
though, I predict we'll see a batch of missile racks.
Various people wrote (condensed):
"SMLs are Jokes" "SMLs are overpowered"
Obviously they can't be both at the same time. To adress the first item. SMLs
are incredibly useful if you use them right. First, don't make them your only
armament, or usually even your primary armament. The FSE ships seem too
specialized for my tastes. I usually mix and
match, no more than half my cruisers and capitals being missle-heavy
designs. Second, remember my Fleet Design Philosophy post? SMLs belong in the
main battle fleet. IOW, you're not going to fight except
in a target-rich environment. 6,000 points makes a large enough fleet
that you are going to hit something if your opponent forms any sort of
coherent battleline. If missles show up in small fights, it won't be a whole
lot of 'em, and they are best used more for surprise value than anything else.
Third, don't expect them to finish off a particular ship in a single salvo.
SMLs weaken ships, perhaps forcing a systems check before the firing phase.
Your beams and torpedos have to finish the job.
Second complaint: Dammit, learn to counter them. Fighter screens and proper
PDSs are a good first step. You also have to know your opponent
a bit. I prefer to have a standardized stable of designs--you've all
seen my webpage, right? The only ship I've designed with the intent to use
that's not up there is a commerce raider DD refit. Which doesn't belong in
Jane's. If he uses SMLs, then the first turn you come into range, jink like
CRAZY! 3" is damned easy to evade if you really put your mind into it. If you
fly in a straight line at a constant acceleration, my pet dog can put ten SLM
salvos on your DNL. Oops. ESCORT CRUISERS!! Escort cruisers are glorious. Last
game I played
against a fighter-and-missle heavy opponent was a 6K main fleet bash
where my DNL/CV/DN group had two escort medium cruisers and two escort
light cruisers. Sucked up a LOT of missles and fighters both. Even my humble
700 point DD squadron has an escort destroyer.
SMLs, in my experience can be a useful addition to a fleet's arsenal. But I
can, by proper usage of the vector movement system and escorts, beat them too.
Not a gamebreaking unbalancer. IMHO, Jon got it about right. Option: If your
group just can't figure out how to use 'em right, then up the kill zone to 6".
If your group can't figure out how to counter 'em, drop it to 3". I usually
play with 3" for vector, 6" for cinematic. Final Note: You do know, it helps
if you don't roll ones. That sucks. But then again, 1 point of damage is
better than firing 15 dice worth of beams and missing with all of 'em, which
I've seen.
I used salvo missiles in my last three games. In each case I had a sceen of
4 DD/Ms. The first time and second time they did some damage as the
enemy chose to run straight in at me. The biggest decision was when to fire so
that all my DDs had a chance to empty their internal/extrenal racks
before they came under heavy fire.
By the third game, my opponent had judged them to be enough of a threat that
he took some skillfull evasives and changed his tactics. almost two thirds of
my salvos disappeared into space. My last salvo, I readjusted and in
conjucntion with a simultaneous fighter attack, attrited the enemy. His
evasive manuevers in themselves oppened up some possibilities for my ships so
I was still pleased wihth the missiles.
The missiles are enough of a threat that you can't ignore them. But it takes a
while to get to the point that you can eyeball and predict the best place to
throw them. Also I found it's better to concentrate them against a few targets
rather than spread them out.
In fact, My ideal missile squadron would put out max missles in one or two
salvos rather than spread them out over a number of turns.
Laserlight wrote in reply to someone else:
> > I was recently on the receiving end of a demonstration on how to use
How many ADFC did you mount?
Wonderful things in a missile- or fighter-dense environment, ADFCs.
Never leave home without one per cruiser or larger ship.
[snip]
> Let's say you want a hard kill on a Szent Istvan (60 hull, 14 armor, 4
[snip]
You've forgotten two things:
That DN is (or at least should be) escorted by 2-3 Kronprinz Wilhelm CLs
or Radetsky CEs, each of which provide another 3 PDS together with one ADFC
each. If you've placed your SMLs perfectly, they'll all hit the DN
-
but you're still two salvoes short of destruction (on average, of course).
Now, if your missile salvoes were *not* perfectly placed, they are in all
likelyhood going to attack one of the cruisers. 7 SML salvoes on a cruiser...
sort of gives the word "overkill" a new meaning <g>
The DN also carries a fighter group, able to at least weaken a third missile
group. This effect isn't that important compared to the escort ships, though.
Regads,
> On 17 Aug 98 at 13:05, Geoffrey Stewart wrote:
> Hello
I think you need to do a little more work on predicting where the enemy is
going to be, or alternatively, forcing him to be where he doesn't want to be.
The heaviest NLS ships are in real danger from SML's. Their puny manuever of
two makes it almost impossible for them to evade well placed groups of SMLS.
Super Battledreadnoughts versus 8 SML's without decent area defense support to
protect them are in serious danger.
My experience of massed SML salvoes is that they are quite effective enough
for the points cost. Use them at their maximum range, try and empty the
magazines as quickly as possible while avoiding closing range. If you haven't
won the battle by then, (if a campaign game) disengage, enter FTL, rendevous
with auxilairies and reload, and try again.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The cruisers mounted 5 SML launchers each, he had 4 of them. Each ship had 2
salvos per launcher. The cruisers were very specialized as the only other
weapons were level 2 screens to prevent long range beam fire from disabling
them. In the 2nd game, the NAC player had 2 majestic BB's (with a pretty
potent PDS capability) and 3 escort cruisers with ADFC systems. The guy with
all the missiles threw all the salvos from each ship into 1 location (ie. 4
groups of 5 salvos each). With my slow BB's he hit with ease. Even against the
NAC ships, about 50% of the salvos found their mark. 1 NAC BB, 1 escort
cruiser and 1 frigate were killed outright and the other BB was sorely hurt.
His DD's closed in and finished the job. The ADFC's were simply overwhelmed.
Tim
BTW: This friday were having another mini tournament. I'll have a chance to
see if I learned anything.
> Oerjan Ohlson wrote:
> Laserlight wrote in reply to someone else:
Never
> leave home without one per cruiser or larger ship.