Well, after inventing rather too many new Sa'Vasku pod launcher
munitions - I've got a few ideas for alternative salvo missile types -
some of these are more question than suggestions - as I've come up with
a basic idea, but can't think of a good way to implement it!
So here we go:
EMP Salvo Missile
This is the SM equivalent of the old EMP missile in More Thrust - they
use the standard rules for a FB1 salvo missile, but when the missiles hit (if
they hit) use the number of missiles that actually target the ship and are not
stopped by PDS etc. in place of the random 1d6 roll on
the EMP missile table in More Thrust (p. 3) - you still subtract 1 per
level of shields.
Actually, looking at the table, I fell I should suggest an alternative: 1: no
effect
2-3: systems knocked out on roll of 6
4-5: systems knocked out on roll of 5+
6: systems knocked out on roll of 4+
I actually thought that someone else had suggested something like this,
but I couldn't find anything on the archives - or the www.
I rejected the concept of a Needle Salvo Missile - PSB (and mechanics)
too messy!
Interceptor Salvo Missiles
I'm sure someone did a missile-based, one-shot PDS system (2 variants -
Rapier and Patriot) - but I can't find the web site again :-( any ideas?
Anyway, my idea is for a variant of interceptor that is launched from a
SMR/SML - either as a close in area defence system (launch in response
to an attack - in PDS phase), or as a long range 'proactive' area
defence system (launched during Missile phase) - in both cases, the
individual missiles in the salvo each have multiple submunitions that hunt
down and kill other missiles or fighters (maybe even Plasma Bolts).
But I can't come up with any mechanics I like :-(
Planetary Bombardment Salvo Missiles
Effectively, these enable a SMR/SML to be used as an ortillary system -
the actual mechanics are probably best left tho the Dirtside players -
as they'll have to deal with the results!
(I'm going to have to try and get into Dirtside - I know one of my
friends plays it occassionally).
Decoy Salvo Missiles
Launch as usual, but they don't attack ships, however, their placement
token counts as a valid target for other salvo missiles :-)
Light Missile System
Idea I've been tinkering with - like SMR/SML, but fires single missiles:
Light Missile Rack: MASS 1, cost 2, or 3 with ER missiles Light Missile
Launcher: MASS 1, cost 2
Light Missile Magazine: MASS 1/3 missiles, or 1/2 ER missiles, cost
MASSx3
Use as for SMs, but to determine if missile locks on to target (after
defences against it are allocated) roll 1d6, 1-3 missile misses, 4-6
missile on target.
Not very effective by itself (like the ods of 1 missile getting through
any serious PDS are slight) - but a way of giving missile capability to
small ships - I see it as a system for modelling genre small ships with
little missiles (Millenium Falcon, perhaps?)
> At 10:59 PM +0100 7/15/00, Charles Stanley Taylor wrote:
How about adding one or two 'special' missiles, ecm, remote sensors, maybe a
needle beamer, or some sort of penetration aid [is there something else we can
call these?] a la Honor Harrington?
Hmm, penaids....
<proposal> Replace two missiles in a salvo with ECM drones. Every PDS engaging
that salvo suffer a -1 penalty to their die roll. Roll for the number
of missiles that hit normally, except that any quantity of missile hits
greater than 4 is reduced to 4 hits. Replacing two regular missiles with
penaids costs 5 points.
</proposal>
This could be changed to -1 per penaid in the salvo, but that would
be a bit much. Or, -1 per two penaids would be good, it'd give a
better chance of getting at least a few hits on a well protected target. I'm
also not 100% sure about the points cost, but Oerjan will probbaly set me
straight.
<side note to Brendan> You may want to consider these for the HH rules.
</side note to Brendan>
I think there are some good ideas here, but they would need to be carefully
costed and massed (ie. the EMP missile could be devastating, especially to a
fleet which emphasised hull mass as apposed to shields)
However the light missile system seems too open to abuse.
> Light Missile System
As a KV player, the thought of having to spread my scatter guns against them
even after finding out which are on target is scary, never mind allocating
them before hand, knowing that about 50% will be wasted. Also, each SG could
only destroy one missile (i have enough trouble with MT missiles). Ordinary
PDS would also suffer from this.
In short, i think there is a real danger that some players would abuse this
system by putting stacks of them on big ships, and swamping the opposition.
In message <F509x6HHGNZ4mF1IT1800004653@hotmail.com>
> "Brian Thompson" <brianthompson17@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I think there are some good ideas here, but they would need to be
[CST] Ow! damn! hadn't thought of that! Ok.. how about if a ship uses
light missile launchers/racks to fire multiple missiles at a single
target, then the missile attacks are divided into groups of 6 and treated as
salvo missile attacks, with the remainder (a group of less than 6) rolling
individually to targeting but being treated as a salvo for defence purposes.
Of course, I can see some players building large LML (Light Missile Launcher)
platforms and spreading the missile out over every target in range!
Another fix - assume that SMRs/SMLs get a certain amount of size/cost
reduction from component redundancy that single shot LMR/LMLs don't get
-
ie.
SMR - MASS 4, COST 12, ie. MASS 2/3, COST 2 per missile
SMR(ER) - MASS 5, COST 15, ie. MASS 5/6, COST 2.5 per missile
LMR - MASS 1, COST 3, ie. MASS 1, COST 3 per missile (50% more)
yup, I've put the costs up :-)
can't come up with good figures for LMR(ER)s though :-(
SML - MASS 3, COST 9 (launcher), ie. MASS 1/2, COST 1.5 per missile
LML - MASS 1, COST 3, ie. MASS 1, COST 3 per missile (100% more)
Magazine - MASS 1/2 missiles
I think I'll junk ERLM (extended range light missiles) for the time being.
I dont know if these changes can fix these things - If they can't be
fixed I'll bin 'em :-(
> In short, i think there is a real danger that some players would abuse
Going to try and fix this by making 'em more expensisive than equivalent SM
system, see above.
> Charles Stanley Taylor wrote:
> EMP Salvo Missile
Does each salvo determine its damage separately, or do they add up? (I hope
separately, so I've assumed that below)
> Actually, looking at the table, I fell
Hope you didn't hurt yourself! <g>
> I should suggest an alternative:
[Note to Brian Bell: The number chosen on this table is the number of
"SM" missiles which gets *through* the PDS, ie 1D6-(PDS kills) - you do
NOT roll once on the above table for each missile which makes it
through...]
Interesting system. If opposed by the same number of PDSs, it knocks
down some 2.5-3.5 times as many systems per hit than an MTM-EMP
(depending on the target's screens, the number of PDSs defending it etc). OTOH
you can't fire as large salvoes as with MTMs so there'll
usually be more PDSs available to oppose the SM-EMP; it also costs some
1.5-2 times more per shot and is easier to decoy. All in all it looks
reasonably well balanced against the MTM-EMP. Whether or not the
MTM-EMP is reasonably balanced against more damaging weapons is a
matter of some conjecture though - I believe it is, but then again I
believe the Pulsers are balanced as well <g>
> I rejected the concept of a Needle Salvo Missile - PSB (and
Good. When a ship-mounted needle beam needs a dedicated FCS to be able
to find a target, I can't quite see how an MTM could possibly carry
enough sensors to inflict a precision hit - and salvo missiles are much
smaller than an MTM...
> Interceptor Salvo Missiles
Sounds *very* similar to an SV Interceptor Pod to me....
> Decoy Salvo Missiles
Nice system.
> Light Missile System
Since it fires single missiles, I assume it only inflicts 1D6 if it is on
target and nothing otherwise?
> Not very effective by itself (like the ods of 1 missile getting
On the contrary - the more serious the PDS the better these LMs become
compared to SMs, since you can have at least four times as many of them for
the same Mass (and somewhat more than that for the same cost). You need at
least 6 PDSs opposing each SM salvo before 4 LMs inflict a higher average
damage. As Brian Thompson pointed out, it'd be a rather nasty system against
Kra'Vak as well.
> Michael Llaneza wrote:
> <proposal>
</proposal> >
When opposed by PDS, this is equal to a standard salvo if the target can
oppose each salvo with 4 PDSs; if 3 or less PDSs oppose the salvo, a standard
salvo would have inflicted more damage on average. I haven't looked at a pure
B1 defence, but judging from the PDS numbers a
pen-aided
salvo should "break even" against 7-8 B1s.
If these pen-aids have the same effect against Scatterguns and
Interceptor
pods (-1 to the intercept die), they're marginally better against these
defences than the standard salvoes (on avg. 1.11 missiles get past a single
scattergun/IP, vs 0.97 for standard missiles).
Given the very low starting
> This could be changed to -1 per penaid in the salvo, but that would be
If you allow only 1 penaid per salvo this version breaks even against 3 PDSs
per salvo; I'd say this is worth your suggested +5 points per salvo (or
+6,
to make the cost/mass ratio an even number :-/ ). More than 1 penaid
makes the salvo almost uninterceptable by PDSs though, so I'd be rather wary
of allowing it.
> Or, -1 per two penaids would be good, it'd give a better chance of
Round down or up? Ie., do you need 3 or 4 penaid submunitions to get a
-2
modifier and make it impossible for PDS to stop?
[snip what I said before]
> Interceptor Salvo Missiles
Well, I finally found the URL of the Rapier and Patriot point defence
missile systems (and a few other gizmos as well) - of course, it was
right under my nose!
http://www.bifrost.demon.co.uk/Gaming/FullThrust/NewRules.html
All this stuff is pre-FB.
> In message <200007201647.SAA03155@d1o901.telia.com> you wrote:
> Hello,
[snip EMP-SMs, Interceptor SMs]
> >>>Decoy Salvo Missiles
Still,
> given the choice between 1D6 non-penetrating damage to each of my
In a similar vein Roger Brooks suggested an 'Electronic Warfare' decoy
pod for the Sa'Vasku. I guess any comments/proceedures that apply to
Decoy-SMs could apply to EW/Decoy pods as well.
> [quoted text omitted]
[snip Light Missiles]
> Later,