Enough of Kra'vak talk - they are far approaching the most over exposed
aliens in the Universe! Has anybody tried some serious games using Sa'vasku
fleets? I saw the pirate game on the UFTWS which looked like fun [I haven't
tried it out yet], however I've found Sa'vasku really hard [dare I say boring]
to play.
We have been tossing around some variations on the rules and have come up with
something like a cross between Official Sa'vasku and our friendly
Aliens - we call them grubs and use lots of playdough/plactacine
[however
you spell it] to represent them - you will quickly see why...
A quick run down of what we have come up with:
1. Ship point cost = [mass x 0.75] x 10. Damage Points, PF and PP all remain,
as do treatment of Beam Attacks, Storing energy, Fighters, FTL, PDF and
Thrust. Classes are Lava, Drone, Warrior and Breeder [Supership
size -
good for campaigns etc].
2. Ships can merge with one another to repair lost damage [imagine one
ship kind of absorbing another, including merging of fighters - however
it doesn't work 100% of the time.
3. A weapon like the human needler that can target systems however if they are
hit then the Sa'vasku player can control that item. In addition it continues
to spread throughout the ship over the course of the game until Dmg Control
parties can kill it. We call it the INFESTOR CANNON [pretty nasty sounding].
4. Another weapon option is SPINES which act as low grade railguns. However
rather than relying souly on PP's the Sa'vasku vessel can use
damage points - basically they are shooting bits of themselves at the
enemy.
5. Regeneration is possible - One damage point requires a PF worth of
power point spent.
6. Rather than shields and armour another defense - that of SPORE
CLOUDS. The filthy slugs release clouds of organic muck into surounding space
making it difficult to lock on them. The bigger the ship the harder it is
to lock. Also these can be used in conjunction with the whole fleet -
you can have your Drones [Cruisers] screening your Warriors [Capitals] forcing
the enemy to chop their way through the easy stuff before they can even target
the really problems. Of course there are some limiting factors but that's what
makes for a tactically challenging game.
The above seems to work pretty well - I was going to show some people at
MOAB, maybe run a short demo game, but I will be recovering from a week
interstate partying by then. I'd like to see what ideas/comments people
have and next weekend I could mail actual rule details [in house] to those who
are interested. Maybe then we can talk about Kra'vak again [I have got some
beauties for those bugs...].
Let the thread start,
> At 09:41 AM 9/27/97 +1000, you wrote:
My problem with the Sa'vasku is that playing a large fleet of them is
slooooow. And since the Sa'vasku are my largest fleet (lots of Tyrannid
ships...), and consists mostly of pretty small ships.... Well, things bog
down. Expecially when playing with folks unfamiliar with the rules. Plus, I
thought that the Sa'vasu neede to be more...well, alien. As is, they seems to
be a mere imitation of the Human ships. A race as old as theirs should have
some more effective tech, in my opinion. Inferior in a lot of ways, in fact.
I've been considering the following ideas, although I am nowhere near the
point of actually writing them up....
First, build the Sa'vasku like any other ships. They have access to beam
weapons, of all three classes (although with inferior range), and have
firecons and drive systems just like Humans. However...instead of shields, the
Sa'vasku can absorb incoming fire. I'm not sure of the exact mechanism yet,
but it would be a table similar to the reflex field, and will cause the ship
to absorb some, all, or none of a beam attack. This will be an intrinsic
quality of the ship, not an actual system. Each point that the ship absorbs
will give them one die to play with, which may be spent as follows:
1) Adding one die to any one beam attack. 2) To give one free repair roll to
any system, or to the Hull Points themselves. 3) To add one point of thrust,
for that turn only, to the ship' capabilities. 4) To grow drone pods. This
will be like using a Nova
Cannon--roll
dice until you have the neccessary score.
The player will be physically given the dice, and must roll them when he
wishes to use them. Once rolled, it's gone. All ships will have
limits on what they can absorb--once they have absorbed their full
capacity, they recieve no protection. Smaller ships, obviously, will be more
limited than the larger ships.
As for other systems....
Something similar to the sandcaster already discussed on this
list--a one shot device that blocks all fire (in and out-going) through
one arc.
A short range EMP attack, that functions like the missile of the same name.
A missile that does damage each turn after it hits (Roll 1d6, and subtract the
number of turns since impact. If the result is less than one, no further
dmage. Otherwise, lose that many hull points).
A pod that would release a boarding party onto the target
ship--no
chance of taking it over, but something to upset and occupy the crew for a
while.
A weapon that does damage according to the mass of the
ship--maybe
one die for every ten points of mass, or something. The Sa'vasku equivalent of
the Nove Cannon.....
Just some ideas. Workable? Who knows? Sooner or later, I'll get around to
writing up the rules. Not tonight, though....
Jason
I think you're onto something here.
Gil
> ----------
> My problem with the Sa'vasku is that playing a large fleet of
Plus,
> I thought that the Sa'vasu neede to be more...well, alien. As is, they
> seems to be a mere imitation of the Human ships. A race as old as
No they aren't. They may not be technologically superior but what they are is
very much more flexible than any other force. That flexibility is their
superiority. Whereas Human/Kra'Vak are stuck with what they have,
Sa'Vasku can have what they want in a particular situation. Tell me that's not
an advantage..
> First, build the Sa'vasku like any other ships. They have
So the more you hit them, the stronger they get? Don't like that I'm afraid.
It would make for very dull batlles..
> 1) Adding one die to any one beam attack.
Naaah, still don't like it. What you will get is other players hanging around
waiting for the Sa'VAsku to get into close range them blasting them with
everything they have in an attempt to overload them. Then running away
for a while. I think the system there is now - where you know vaguely
what
a Sa'Vasku ship can do but not with any certainty - is a much better
way.
> Something similar to the sandcaster already discussed on this
No (background) reason why any Sa'Vasku weapon should be one shot..
> A short range EMP attack, that functions like the missile of
Like an electric Eel attack? Interesting I suppose.
> A missile that does damage each turn after it hits (Roll 1d6,
An acid bomb? Why not. Presuming it did as much damage overall as say, an SMB
pack (which on average at first glance I don't think it does..)
> A weapon that does damage according to the mass of the
Some sort of bizarre gravity wepon. I like that idea. Give people reason to
use smaller ships, apart from anything else..
> Just some ideas. Workable? Who knows? Sooner or later, I'll
If you want a tester, I'm a known Sa'Vasku fan..
TTFN
Jon
> John Crimmins writes:
@:) I've been considering the following ideas, although I am nowhere @:) near
the point of actually writing them up....
@:)
@:) [...] However...instead of shields, the Sa'vasku can absorb @:) incoming
fire. I'm not sure of the exact mechanism yet, but it @:) would be a table
similar to the reflex field, and will cause the @:) ship to absorb some, all,
or none of a beam attack. This will be @:) an intrinsic quality of the ship,
not an actual system. Each @:) point that the ship absorbs will give them one
die to play with, @:) which may be spent as follows:
@:)
@:) 1) Adding one die to any one beam attack. @:) 2) To give one free repair
roll to any system, or to the Hull Points
@:) themselves.
@:) 3) To add one point of thrust, for that turn only, to the ship'
@:) capabilities.
@:) 4) To grow drone pods. This will be like using a Nova Cannon--roll
@:) dice until you have the neccessary score.
Congratulations! You've just invented the Andromedans! Star Fleet Battles has
also got a nasty and superior alien race, the Andromedans, who lack shield
technology but have instead "Power Absorbtion Panels". These, combined with a
pretty astounding number of batteries, allow them to absorb energy from enemy
attacks and use it to power their own weapons and systems. The PA panels are
not completely efficient, however, so damage "leaks" through them. And once
they overload they start to explode, which typically overloads their
neighbors, and so on, until the ship pops. Very interesting stuff, but
unfortunatly they beat you to it.
@:) As for other systems....
@:) A pod that would release a boarding party onto the target
@:) ship--no chance of taking it over, but something to upset and
@:) occupy the crew for a while.
Actually it might be interesting to attempt to mind-control the
ship. I could see a pod which, upon making a successful attack, infects the
crew and reduces the "mind control resistance" of the crew by one point.
Perhaps this resistance would start at 10. On any turn, if the Sa'vasku player
can roll a number equal to or greater than the mind control resistance of a
ship, that ship will operate, for that turn, under Sa'vasku control.
@:) A weapon that does damage according to the mass of the
@:) ship--maybe one die for every ten points of mass, or something.
@:) The Sa'vasku equivalent of the Nove Cannon.....
Somebody gave the B5 Shadows a weapon like this. You could probably adapt
those rules.
In message <875332864.127105.0@kryten.acs.bolton.ac.uk>
> John Crimmins <johncrim@voicenet.com> wrote:
> is slooooow. And since the Sa'vasku are my largest fleet (lots of
I've never liked the idea of having to work out power expenditure and
generation, so my greatly modified Savasku
rules allow Savasku to be built much like human ships - ie
theyhave mass dedicated to particular systenms.
> firecons and drive systems just like Humans. However...instead of
My Savasku can 'dissipate' energy, rendering it harmless. I haven't finalised
anything yet, but something like a mass 1 system which can dissipate 1 point
of damage each turn. It means a big Savasku can totally ignore moderate
damage, but concentrated fire will take them down quite quickly.
Their beam weapons are _very_ nasty, especially at short
range. Probably mass 2 for a fusion beam weapon which does 1d6 damage (as
rolled, not as a human beam). Multiple beams can be used together in a single
attack. Damage is halved
each 10" of range, and shields/armour reduces damage by 2
points per level.
I'm working on them being from 2 to 3 times more effective than an
equivalently massed human ship (ie 2 to 3 times as many points). They are
supposed to be an ancient and powerful race after all...
> Enough of Kra'vak talk - they are far approaching the most over exposed
We have used them seriously several times now and found them great fun to use.
They can be quite powerful, and I have seen a fleet of them trash an NSL fleet
of equal mass in 3 rounds of firing without taking heavy casualties.
Impressive. But as was said earlier by someone else, they can be slow to play.
Very slow.
> A quick run down of what we have come up with:
<Snip new rules>
Some of these look pretty good. They do need a bit of variety. The
Bio-shock beams are just a little too dull.
> The above seems to work pretty well - I was going to show some people
<Sigh>
If only Brisbane had a better convention. BrisCon just isn't what it used to
be. Ad all the good Cons are down South.
Sam,
No offense but someone earlier pointed out these sounded more like
re-inventing the Andromedans from SFB. Tack on the Fusion beams and
well, you just added the Hydrans; Blending tech from power absorbers and
fusion beams.
Good thought though.
Gil
> ----------
> At 09:31 AM 9/29/97 +0100, you wrote:
Status: RO
> My problem with the Sa'vasku is that playing a large fleet of
Plus,
> I thought that the Sa'vasu neede to be more...well, alien. As is,
> Errrm.. at the mo they handle totally differently from any other ship
What bugs me (no pun intended....) is that their weapons are just like human
weapons. Their defenses are...just like human defenses. Even their fighters
are just like...wait for it...human fighters. Sure, they grow 'em, but they
are treated just like everyone elses. As they stand right now, there is no
variety in the Sa'vasku ships. I like being able to build different ships for
different purposes for different games. And, seeing as how they are aliens, I
want them to *feel* alien. And not take forever to use. Trust me, when you are
rolling dice for fifty seperate ships, play slows to a crawl. Sure, I could
just use less ships...but I
*like* big fleets! And since none of my Sa-vasku are larger than a
light cruiser (and most are much smaller), I need a lot for most scenarios.
> firecons and drive systems just like Humans. However...instead of
> So the more you hit them, the stronger they get? Don't like that I'm
> Naaah, still don't like it. What you will get is other players hanging
It won't be that bad. Most ships won't be able to absorb more than one or two
attacks per turn. And that's assuming that they can roll well.... Remember,
most of my ships are quite small. The bigger ones might be able to absorb four
or five seperate attacks, but I don't think that this will unbalance things
unduly. I only have three ships of that size....
> Something similar to the sandcaster already discussed on this
through
> one arc.
I'm thinking of this item as being basically a blister on the skin of the
ship, that releases a dense cloud of organic matter. I suppose that dice from
abosrbed attacks could be used to grow new ones, though....
In any case, I'm using the Sa'vasku name ('cause I like it), but nothing else.
In my admittedly sketchy background, the Sa'vasku are the senior members of
the Hegemony, an alliance of races united by their belief that biotechnology
is a good thing, while inorganic tech is foul, blasphemous mockery of life,
and not to be tolerated. The Sa'vasku provide FTL travel and communications to
the other members of the Hegemony, who are capable of actually walking and
fighting on planetary surfaces. At this
point, I have the GW Tyrannids, the Fantasy Forge/Stone
Mountain/Genadier/Simtac Kryomeks, two additional races for the Kryomek
line (the names of which I do not know, although Simtac is producing them in
the U.S.), and the Kyromeks produced by Zap (Essentially humans with organic
weapons and armor, and now also available from Simtac). From what I
understand, there are some GZG figs available in England that I could also
use, as soon as Geo-Hex produces them over here. Obviously, I have
digressed, but if anybody knows of other figures that I could use, or of
some 1/300 scale bio-tech forces, please let me know.
Status: RO
In message
<c=US%a=_%p=ORGANIZATION%l=FETC2-970930212601Z-74808@fetc1.army.mil>
> "Haun, Gilles, SSG" <haung@Eustis-EMH10.army.mil> wrote:
> Sam,
Never having played SFB, or heard of either of those two races, I wouldn't
know.
If you must know, my Savasku rules are a blend of Shadow/Vorlon
technology from Babylon 5. So there.:)
> Good thought though.
Of course it was:)
> On Mon, 29 Sep 1997, Samuel Penn wrote:
Status: RO
> I've never liked the idea of having to work out power
Likewise. I hate energy allocation games -- they make me feel like
an accountant.
Status: RO
> If you must know, my Savasku rules are a blend of Shadow/Vorlon
Sam, It sounds like your Sha'vasku rules may be much more interesting than the
book version. Would you consider sharing some of the good bits? I feel the
Sha'vasku are only good for targets and not much fun as targets. Brian Bell
came up with the 'Cthar' a much more interesting race, and quite dangerous. By
for now,
Status: RO
In message <344156E2.3655@sj.bigger.net>
> John Leary <realjtl@sj.bigger.net> wrote:
> >