> Naming of ship classes is a quirky matter. "Monitor" and "Dreadnought"
were
> those able to play a role in that formation. "Destroyers" were
Very true. Torpedo Boat Destroyers (TBDs) were pretty small, too. Tiny things,
about the same size or a little bigger than a torpedo boat (which, itself,
actually shrunk in size if you compare things like WWII Motor
Torpedo Boats and German e-boats to pre-WWI TBDs).
-Destroyers were designed as torpedo boat interceptors, and used
locomotive -boilers for high steeming performance with light weight,
while
torpedo boat -used IC engines and had a very limited range.
Dreadnoughts we think of as huge vessels, and they were the largest
battleships of the period. But the later WWII battleships dwarfed the WWI
dreadnoughts. Even pocket battleships (battleships built, I think, on
battlecruiser hulls by the Germans to get around either the Treaty of
Verseilles or the Washington Naval Treaty, not sure which) were bigger than
dreadnoughts.
> It helps acceptance if bears some resemblance to present usage,
-The WW1 deadnoughts were the largest vessels built, and the WW2 BB
were -properly SUPER dreadnought (the british navy I beleave used this
designation -when it started with the 13.5 inch main gun ships). The
pocket
battleships were -built as overguned heavy cruisers (and broke the
cruiser
treaty limit (10KT) at -the time (mass-12KT))
Definitely. The assumption since the beginning of space opera has been that
space militaries would follow a naval scheme. I suspect, though, that they
will follow some sort of air force scheme. Space is what's "up" and it would
be hard for a nascent space force to follow a naval model. Space falls under
the control right now of the air force, adn I don't see them giving that up. I
suspect that nomenclature, ranks, and traditions will actually come from an
air force background, not navy.
Navy makes sense for fiction, as it's the closest analogue we have. But if I
were to bet money, I'd bet it evolves from the air force. Instead of
references to boats and ships, it will be... something else.
-The navy in space is logical when you consider the training and
logistic of
lond -missions out of contact or support, confined in a craped, enclosed
space (like -a nuclear sub, can`t think of any airforce that requires a
pilot to be on constant -duty for the same length of time.
I suspect we'd see a whole bunch of weird ship type names, probably in some
form of acronym. I see the whole series of naming conventions following not a
naval evolution but some other sort. An example of what could happen is the
way that tanks got their names and designations. The name "tank" came from the
code word for the British motorized artillery platform of WWI. Eventually
tanks fell into various types of tanks: light tanks, cruiser tanks, medium
tanks, heavy tanks. Later these even changed, to light tanks, main battle
tanks, armoured fighting vehicles, armoured personnel carriers, etc.
You won't see cruisers, destroyers, battleships, etc. It would be something
else. What? I haven't a clue. But it will be something far different, I
suspect.
But for a game, or for fiction, using naval terms has the immediate advantage
of acting as a metaphor. Since it's unlikely that in "reality" we'll use naval
parlance, we might as well stick to naval parlance as a metaphor to be
consistent.
-The names have the advantage of familaty, so you know when you
-destroyer Vs heavy cruiser, you know whos out classed (or going to
-shortly)
From: "Ranitzsch, Karl Heinz" <KH.Ranitzsch@t-online.de>
> As they say in German 'Der Teufel steckt im Detail' (The devil is in
Interesting... it's exactly the same in English. I didn't use the phrase
because I wasn't sure it would translate!
> I would call the 'details' of basic ideology, political practice and
The "basic ideology" is arguable, but the rest - the practice (as
opposed to the ideological theory), and attitude towards other humans, yes,
without question.
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From: "Ranitzsch, Karl Heinz" <KH.Ranitzsch@t-online.de>
> People here do have a weird sense of humor, but this is not really the
Good on you Karl Heinz!
"Goodwill to all men" - even the ones that offend you. In fact,
especially to the ones that offend you. I'm sure he didn't mean to be
offensive. I found it most unfunny too, but that's immaterial. And I'm sure
I've accidentally given offense in the past.
Anyway, to all readers, lurkers, painters of Space Nazis or Cosmic Commies, to
everyone may you all have a Merry Christmas, and a happy and prosperous New
Year.
"God Bless Use, Everyone." - Tiny Tim
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To: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
Subject: [FT - DS - SG] Aliens (as in the non-human kind...)
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So, What "are" the Phalons, Sa'Vasku (spelling) and Kravak (ditto)?
I mean the whole essence of "alien" is more then "just" biology but also
psychology (and maybe even spiritual but we tread on clearly demarcated
mine fields with that one...) of being/creation.
Getting the aliens TO&E is easy but the "why" that drives it is not. For
example to choose a moldy oldie - why do the Klackons (Equal Opportunity
Omnivorous Crabs) in Ratner's Space Marines rules use *seven* as the base
number of each level? (Other then A. Mark Ratner had used the more common base
numbers to death...)
7 soldiers = squad (7)
7 squads = a platoon (49+)
7 platoons = a company (343+).....
etc., etc., etc.
Guess who never saw a Company of Klackons deployed on the table. Ever.
That said, what defines the 'alien logic' of these FT/DS/SG races?
And has anyone come up with a SG and/or DS TO&E for these creatures?
Gracias, Glenn/Triphibious
You don't have to be French to be a 'frog', or even human!
Nektons - Real Marines!
Starguard, Dirtside 2, Full Thrust, Ratner's Space Marines, Stellar
Conflicts and Uprisings, and Full Thrust/2nd. Resistance is everything!
________________________________________________________________
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From: Allan Goodall <awg@sympatico.ca>
To: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: Can a FT only Fleet be viable?
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 19:38:10 -0500
Organization: Haphazard at best.
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<200012221443.PAA01750@d1o902.telia.com><20001223.102006.9719.0.triphibi
ous@juno.com> <20001224.085920.6615.0.triphibious@juno.com>
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On Sat, 23 Dec 2000 10:44:03 EST, Glenn M Wilson <triphibious@juno.com> wrote:
> On that note assuming the presence of "salvo missiles" and the 'odd'
I think you're still missing the point that there are significant rules
changes in the fleet books.
The design system in FT2 is different from the fleet books. The points cost
for each ship you built in FT2 would make no sense compared to the point cost
of Fleet Book ships. The design system has been overhauled. 100 points of FT2
ships does not equal 100 points of FB ships.
The changes aren't just in the design system. Some rules are different,
including the number of firing arcs. How would you play with one fleet using
90 degree firing arcs and the other using 60 degree firing arcs? Actually, I
guess you COULD play with a mix of rules, but the points won't make any sense
at all. See Oerjan's comments for whether or not your FT fleet would have the
advantage or disadvantage.
If you want to just wing it and play an FT2 fleet against an FB fleet, then I
don't think you have to worry if it's "viable". Just wing it. If the FT2 fleet
gets stomped, you need more (or different) FT2 ships, or fewer FB opponents.
If the FB ships get stomped, the reverse is the case.
But you can forget about bringing X number of points of FT2 ships and having
that fleet balance against X number of points of FB ships.
Allan Goodall awg@sympatico.ca
Goodall's Grotto: http://www.vex.net/~agoodall
"Surprisingly, when you throw two naked women with sex toys into a living room
full of drunken men, things
always go bad." - Kyle Baker, "You Are Here"
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From: Allan Goodall <awg@sympatico.ca>
To: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: [FT - DS - SG] Aliens (as in the non-human kind...)
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 21:19:24 -0500
Organization: Haphazard at best.
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On Sat, 23 Dec 2000 18:53:28 EST, Glenn M Wilson <triphibious@juno.com> wrote:
> So, What "are" the Phalons, Sa'Vasku (spelling) and Kravak (ditto) ?
The background information you're after on the aliens -- their
psychology,
social structure, history, motivation, etc. -- is in the background
sections of the second Fleet Book.
> That said, what defines the 'alien logic' of these FT/DS/SG races?
For that, you need Fleet Book 2. *grin*
> And has anyone come up with a SG and/or DS TO&E for these creatures?
THAT is potentially on tap for the SG2/DS2 supplement "Bugs Don't Surf".
Allan Goodall awg@sympatico.ca
Goodall's Grotto: http://www.vex.net/~agoodall
"Surprisingly, when you throw two naked women with sex toys into a living room
full of drunken men, things
always go bad." - Kyle Baker, "You Are Here"
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Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 21:27:57 EST
Subject: [FT]Weapon variations
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Hi all, Was curious if anyone in the group had ever used plasma torp rules for
a turreted plasma cannon? I was planning to get back into FT and was going
through some of my old design notes and I had written down plasma cannon as a
main weapon for one of my races but not any stats. So, I had thought about a
cannon that used P-torp ranges and rules. Any comments ?
Kirk
Kirk Alderfer <A
HREF="http://hometown.aol.com/arbron/Main_page.html">http://members.aol.
com
/arbron/index.html</A>
"Meandering to a different drummer"
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Tw Cen
MT" LANG="0">Hi all, <BR> Was curious if anyone in the group had ever
used plasma torp rules f or a <BR>turreted plasma cannon? I was planning to
get back into FT and was go ing <BR>through some of my old design notes and I
had written down plasma canno n as a <BR>main weapon for one of my races but
not any stats. So, I had thought
about a <BR>cannon that used P-torp ranges and rules. Any comments ?
<BR>
<BR>Kirk
<BR>
<BR>
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Bell MT"
LANG="0"
> Kirk Alderfer</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF"
FACE="Tah
oma" LANG="0">
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Bell MT"
LANG="0"
> <A
co
m/arbron/index.html</A> </FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2
FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Tahoma" LANG="0">
<BR>
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Bell MT"
LANG="0"
> "Meandering to a different drummer"
<BR></FONT></HTML>
--part1_d3.e70afa5.2776b92d_boundary--
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From: "Jeremy Sadler" <webmaster@stargrunt.com>
To: <gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu>
References: <20001224.174910.10311.0.triphibious@juno.com>
<v2na4t8k0lg8j8ah53rueq88550kemted4@4ax.com>
Subject: Re: [FT - DS - SG] Aliens (as in the non-human kind...)
Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 13:57:41 +1100
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> >That said, what defines the 'alien logic' of these FT/DS/SG races?
However, I would also suggest, for the Kra'Vak, check out Los's wonderful
Rot Hafen saga at http://www.concentric.net/~ELos/ft/lossf.htm - there's
some great information hidden in the chapters.:)
Don't forget also Karla's Kidnap by Robert Deakin at
http://www.stargrunt.com/reports/karla.html - some good source material
in that as well.
> >And has anyone come up with a SG and/or DS TO&E for these creatures?
I think there is a Kra'Vak TO&E around somewhere (if you find it or someone is
hosting it, please post a link!) but I'm yet to see one for the Phalons or the
S'Vasku.
Of course for the latter, a TO&E could be just about anything you'd like
:)
JS
---
Jeremy Sadler Webmaster
http://www.stargrunt.com
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To: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: [FT - DS - SG] Aliens (as in the non-human kind...)
Message-ID: <20001224.211813.8631.1.triphibious@juno.com>
References: <20001224.174910.10311.0.triphibious@juno.com>
<v2na4t8k0lg8j8ah53rueq88550kemted4@4ax.com>
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On Sat, 23 Dec 2000 21:19:24 -0500 Allan Goodall <awg@sympatico.ca>
writes:
> On Sat, 23 Dec 2000 18:53:28 EST, Glenn M Wilson
Aaaaargh! <grin> okay, second book (FB2) "does aliens." More reason to skip
it, at least for now.
> That said, what defines the 'alien logic' of these FT/DS/SG races?
Where's that darn white flag. Time for a ceasefire. <grin>
> And has anyone come up with a SG and/or DS TO&E for these creatures?
Okay, right after MT, FB1, and FB2... umm, is Jon coming out with a
second edition of MT/FB1/FB2 or something to tie this all together?
Maybe I should ask that first - oh well, I have plenty of time since I
am only 50! <grin>
> Allan Goodall awg@sympatico.ca
Gracias, Glenn/Triphibious
You don't have to be French to be a 'frog', or even human!
Nektons - Real Marines!
Starguard, Dirtside 2, Full Thrust, Ratner's Space Marines, Stellar
Conflicts and Uprisings, and Full Thrust/2nd. Resistance is everything!
________________________________________________________________
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To: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: First game of FT
Message-ID: <20001224.211813.8631.2.triphibious@juno.com>
References: <200012231530.QAA19360@d1o901.telia.com>
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On Sat, 23 Dec 2000 15:41:57 +0100 "Oerjan Ohlson"
> <oerjan.ohlson@telia.com> writes:
> Well... *loyal* might be a bit much to say about Kra'Vak... <g>
He earned his mercenary pay. He hurt (and more importantly) slowed up the
enemy forces.
Gracias, Glenn/Triphibious
You don't have to be French to be a 'frog', or even human!
Nektons - Real Marines!
Starguard, Dirtside 2, Full Thrust, Ratner's Space Marines, Stellar
Conflicts and Uprisings, and Full Thrust/2nd. Resistance is everything!
________________________________________________________________
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Subject: Re: Can a FT only Fleet be viable?
Message-ID: <20001224.211813.8631.0.triphibious@juno.com>
References:
<200012221443.PAA01750@d1o902.telia.com><20001223.102006.9719.0.triphibi
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On Sat, 23 Dec 2000 19:38:10 -0500 Allan Goodall <awg@sympatico.ca>
writes:
> On Sat, 23 Dec 2000 10:44:03 EST, Glenn M Wilson
Got it. But since I don't know what they are my question is too wide to have
meaning.
> The design system in FT2 is different from the fleet books. The points
I accept that.
> The changes aren't just in the design system. Some rules are
I just figured that out after re-reading some of the postings.
> Actually, I
I understand that. The Kravak player on the game I played was mentally and 'on
paper' a 1st edition plus supplement designed fleet. I kept
hearing the GM tell him some version of "...well, in the (fill-in) rules
they changed that..." I assume we were using FT/2nd plus selected
items (like missiles) from the supplements.
> If you want to just wing it and play an FT2 fleet against an FB fleet,
Sounds reasonable.
> But you can forget about bringing X number of points of FT2 ships and
Well, point based games (as opposed to scenario based) aren't all that big a
deal especially since I don't play tournaments.
> Allan Goodall awg@sympatico.ca
Gracias, Glenn/Triphibious
You don't have to be French to be a 'frog', or even human!
Nektons - Real Marines!
Starguard, Dirtside 2, Full Thrust, Ratner's Space Marines, Stellar
Conflicts and Uprisings, and Full Thrust/2nd. Resistance is everything!
________________________________________________________________
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To: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: [FT - DS - SG] Aliens (as in the non-human kind...)
Message-ID: <20001224.212638.8631.3.triphibious@juno.com>
References: <20001224.174910.10311.0.triphibious@juno.com>
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On Sun, 24 Dec 2000 13:57:41 +1100 "Jeremy Sadler"
> <webmaster@stargrunt.com> writes:
Actually I have looked at that but since the only web browser I have
access to is work (short wanderings to non-pornographic, non personal
business sites tend to be ignored by the over worked security guys. When you
are regularly fending off hacks from both domestic "amateurs" and foreign
"professionals" I am sure a short hop onto a FT site is probably seen as a
very minor problem. Or so I have been told via a third party. I certainly
could not be told that "officially." That would violate official Federal
policy. Plus the DCI's guidance.)
> Don't forget also Karla's Kidnap by Robert Deakin at
Got a short peak at that once. First part looked good.
> >And has anyone come up with a SG and/or DS TO&E for these
That's okay, those are literally 2-3 years away.
> Of course for the latter, a TO&E could be just about anything you'd
Gracias, Glenn/Triphibious
You don't have to be French to be a 'frog', or even human!
Nektons - Real Marines!
Starguard, Dirtside 2, Full Thrust, Ratner's Space Marines, Stellar
Conflicts and Uprisings, and Full Thrust/2nd. Resistance is everything!
________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for
less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
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Merry Christmas (or the generic "Happy Holidays," whichever you prefer)!
For Kra'Vak stuff, Los does have some good tidbits in his story (I can't
=
recommend that one enough) but please remember that this is all pre-FB2!
Someone put up a Kra'Vak ground combat OB and rules about a year ago (I
=
think) but I can't remember who did it or where it is available (if at = all).
I have a set of Kra'Vak SG2 rules on my site (different from = those
previously mentioned), just hit =
http://rwhofrichter.webprovider.com/
and follow the SG2 link. I don't really provide an OrBat, but do give = some
conjectural guidelines for organization of forces.
Rob =20
------=_NextPart_000_004D_01C06D32.81DB5000
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3105.105" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Merry Christmas (or
the generic "Happy
=
Holidays,"=20
whichever you prefer)!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>For Kra'Vak stuff, Los does have some = good
tidbits=20 in his story (I can't recommend that one enough) but please
remember = that this=20
is all pre-FB2!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Someone put up a Kra'Vak ground combat
=
OB and rules=20 about a year ago (I think) but I can't remember who did it or
where it = is=20 available (if at all). I have a set of Kra'Vak SG2
rules on my = site=20 (different from those previously mentioned), just hit
<A=20
href=3D"http://rwhofrichter.webprovider.com/and">http://rwhofrichter.web
p=
rovider.com/</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>and follow the SG2 link. I don't
=
really=20 provide an OrBat, but do give some conjectural guidelines for =
organization of=20
forces.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rob</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></BODY></HTML>
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From - Wed Jan 03 11:04:41 2001
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From: "Jeremy Sadler" <webmaster@stargrunt.com>
To: <gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu>
References: <20001224.174910.10311.0.triphibious@juno.com>
<v2na4t8k0lg8j8ah53rueq88550kemted4@4ax.com><003b01c06d55$481cab20$178ea
4cb@co3025750a> <20001224.212638.8631.3.triphibious@juno.com>
Subject: Re: [FT - DS - SG] Aliens (as in the non-human kind...)
Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 14:52:17 +1100
Organization: stargrunt.com
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> >Rot Hafen saga at http://www.concentric.net/~ELos/ft/lossf.htm -
When
> you are regularly fending off hacks from both domestic "amateurs" and
Just quietly, I - err cough cough, someone I know has put together the
whole of the Rot Hafen saga into one document and formatted it like a book,
including fixing up typos etc. It was intended purely to be printed out so it
could be read properly. Perhaps one day it may find its way online, with
appropriate permission of course.:)
JS
---
Jeremy Sadler Webmaster
http://www.stargrunt.com
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From: John Leary <john_t_leary@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: FT-Fighter acceleration?
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> --- bif smith <bif@bifsmith.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
... would it`s acceleration be 96G`s? (or am XXX Seems OK to me. XXX
> Also, a SML missile has a mass of aprox. 600 kg
Bye for now, John L.
From - Wed Jan 03 11:04:43 2001
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From: Allan Goodall <awg@sympatico.ca>
To: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: [FT - DS - SG] Aliens (as in the non-human kind...)
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 23:26:46 -0500
Organization: Haphazard at best.
Message-ID: <phua4tgt7qisis63va5bjecr85ai2rfhu4@4ax.com>
References: <20001224.174910.10311.0.triphibious@juno.com>
<v2na4t8k0lg8j8ah53rueq88550kemted4@4ax.com>
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On Sat, 23 Dec 2000 22:22:30 EST, Glenn M Wilson <triphibious@juno.com> wrote:
> Okay, right after MT, FB1, and FB2... umm, is Jon coming out with a
Jon has a few things on the go, including FMA (the skirmish game using a
Stargrunt-like game mechanic), the "Bugs Don't Surf" supplement, and the
next edition of Full Thrust (FT3) that pulls all of the FT rules into one
package and brings along much of the stuff that's missing.
Which of these will come out first, or maybe something else, is up in the air.
I know what we've been discussing on the playtest mailing list, and I can
guess at what might come out next, but it would only be a guess.
I suggest, though, that you consider picking up at least FB1. It gives you the
vector rules, the new firing arcs, and the new ship design system.
Allan Goodall awg@sympatico.ca
Goodall's Grotto: http://www.vex.net/~agoodall
"Surprisingly, when you throw two naked women with sex toys into a living room
full of drunken men, things
always go bad." - Kyle Baker, "You Are Here"
From - Wed Jan 03 11:04:42 2001
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From: "Mark A. Siefert" <siefertma@netzero.net>
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To: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: [OFFICIAL] Merry Christmas etc.....
References: <200012221548.HAA08094@mainsheet.verity.com>
<v03130305b669304aca09@[212.1.156.212]>
<nms74tg7ualslojru53h7kuna5o152j2dq@4ax.com> <3A44296E.3060208@netzero.net>
<20001224.091804.6615.2.triphibious@juno.com>
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<html><head></head><body><br>
<br>
Glenn M Wilson wrote:<br> <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:20001224.091804.6615.2.triphibious@juno.com"> <pre wrap="">What's
all this um, "editting" looking stuff? It shows upa at in
tervals<br>on some postings/e-mails.</pre>
</blockquote>
Well, if it's the use of "here" instead of
"hear"...errrr... I wa
s drunk. Yeah, that's it. <br> <br> <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:20001224.091804.6615.2.triphibious@juno.com
"><pre wrap="">isings, and Full Thrust/2nd. Resistance is
everything!<br><br>O
n Fri, 22 Dec 2000 22:26:22 -0600 "Mark A. Siefert"<br><a
class="moz-txt-link-r
fc2396E"
href="mailto:siefertma@netzero.net"><siefertma@netzero.net></a>
writes:<br></pre>
<blockquote type="cite"><pre
wrap=""><html><head></head>&
lt;body><br><br><br><br>Allan Goodall
wrote:<br><br><bl
ockquote type="cite" <br>cite=<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:mid
:nms74tg7ualslojru53h7kuna5o152j2dq@4ax.com">"mid:nms74tg7ualslojru53h7k
una5o15
2j2dq@4ax.com"</a>><pre wrap="">On <br>Fri, 22 Dec 2000
16:25:21 +0000
, Ground Zero Games <a <br>class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" <br>href=<a
class="
moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:jon@gzg.com">"mailto:jon@gzg.com"</a>>&a
mp;lt;jon@gzg.com&gt;</a>
wrote:<br><br></pre></pre
> </blockquote>
</blockquote>
Ohhhhh. <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:20001224.091804.6615.2.triphibious@juno
.com">
<blockquote type="cite"></blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!----></pre>
</blockquote>
I just switched to Netscape 6, and I'm still trying to figure thi
s thing out. I've switched off the "compose in HTML" setting.
Hopefully thi s will work.<br>
<pre class="moz-signature">-- <br>Later,<br>Mark A.
Siefert<br><br> "Wise Papa Smurf... Corrupted by his own power. CAN NO <br>
LEADER GO UNTAI
NTED!!!"<br><br> --Thundar the
Barbarian<b
r><br>E-MAIL: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:siefertma@netzer
o.com">siefertma@netzero.com</a> WWW: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="
http://www.homegame.org/siefert">http://www.homegame.org/siefert</a><br>
=======
================================================================</pre>
<br>
</body></html>
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From: Michael Brown <mwbrown@veriomail.com>
To: "'gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu'" <gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu>
Subject: RE: [OFFICIAL] Merry Christmas etc.....
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 21:42:39 -0800
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No, it did not work.
Michael Brown
[quoted original message omitted]