Quick subject switch to SGII (was: Re: Vector Movement)

Has anyone else played SGII like this? I just measure aproximate distances if
I measure at all sometimes, as I figure both movement and ranges are variable
in the field, adn because I'm just lazy and not much of a rules stickler...

- Buddy

[quoted original message omitted]

Yeah, that's a cool way to play also. Adds suspense.

- Buddy

[quoted original message omitted]

***
Yeah, that's a cool way to play also. Adds suspense.

- Buddy
***

In spite of what it may have looked like in my 'Ming the Merciless' post, this
is the way we ALWAYS play FTII.

Talk of fairness and the capability of fire controls does not stand up to
simple game mechanics and flow. I'm lousy at table estimation, but I know that
the game can really bog down if every shot stops while the commander starts
measuring distances
to various targets to determine optimum. Eyeballing and guess-
timating aren't instantanous, but are mechanically quicker, and easier to call
a friendly 'delay of game' taunt.

It turns out that this is a small advantage to smaller units; with more ships,
you can use earlier targeting to fine tune your later estimates.

All said, though, the sweat factor in targeting IS big fun, too.
;->=

The_Beast

> On 20-Aug-99 at 13:15, devans@uneb.edu (devans@uneb.edu) wrote:

It doesn't really slow us down. What we do is immediately after movement
someone picks up a tape measure (the ref if we have one) and does a quick
inside 36 between these guys, inside 24 for these, inside 12 for these, and we
roll, usually takes all of 10 seconds. Of course, if we were playing 30 units
on a side it might make a difference.

Our big slowdown is the one newbie who is constantly going "I don't know, I
don't know if I should do this or this...". She's use to computer games and
they are much more predictable than her opponents.

In a message dated 8/20/99 12:15:33 PM Central Daylight Time,
devans@uneb.edu writes:

<<
It turns out that this is a small advantage to smaller units; with more ships,
you can use earlier targeting to fine tune your later estimates.

All said, though, the sweat factor in targeting IS big fun, too.
 ;->=
> [quoted text omitted]

Think of the miniatures on the table as your holo-display in the
Tactical Command Center, it's all there for you to measure and deciding when
it is optimum to fire is part of the command decisions you are gaming.

While I'm tempted to say that the assumption that the holotank IS reality will
get you decidedly killed, I will, instead, that, along with the PSB of ECW
already presented, spacial distances can certainly induce fuzzyness into the
vaunted predictions of even foreseen tactical systems.

The truth is, it'll be a wonder that ANYTHING jinking can be snagged.

The point is that the game is simple fun, play with your friends the way that
works best for you.

The_Beast

Popeyesays@aol.com@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU on 08/20/99 12:26:38 PM

Please respond to gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU

Sent by:  owner-gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU

To:   gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
cc:

Subject:  Re: Quick subject switch to SGII (was: Re: Vector Movement)

In a message dated 8/20/99 12:15:33 PM Central Daylight Time,
devans@uneb.edu writes:

<<
It turns out that this is a small advantage to smaller units; with more ships,
you can use earlier targeting to fine tune your later estimates.

All said, though, the sweat factor in targeting IS big fun, too.
 ;->=
> [quoted text omitted]

Think of the miniatures on the table as your holo-display in the
Tactical Command Center, it's all there for you to measure and deciding when
it is optimum to fire is part of the command decisions you are gaming.

> On Fri, 20 Aug 1999, Roger Books wrote:

> On 20-Aug-99 at 13:15, devans@uneb.edu (devans@uneb.edu) wrote:

exactly; you get out your tape measure, set it to 24 or whatever, put the held
end over your battlegroup and sweep the ruler over the table: you get to see
what's in range and and what isn't in less than a second (with practice). if
it's borderline, you can adjust your hand slightly a few times to measure for
individual ships, but this is rare. you can then
re-sweep for other ranges if necessary. if you have ships spread out,
adjust your hand further. it's still quite quick. the trick is not to go for
an accurate measurement every time: only do that if the distance is borderline
and you absolutely need to know.

the only time you might make several exact measurements is if you had to know
where a ship could move, eg to lay an SM salvo, but this generally only
happens once or twice.

plus, everyone gets to see the results, and range is reflexive, so if i'm in
24 of him, he's in 24 of me.

> Of course, if we were playing 30 units on a side

provided the ships are kept in clumps (as they should be - CONCENTRATE!
:)
), large numbers of ships can be handled easily.

> Our big slowdown is the one newbie who is constantly going "I

i find that the plotting and movement phases are usually the main slowdown.

as a last word, i'd add that i would support measuring ranges even in ancient
warfare: the argument that people had no rangefinders is pure comedy.
professional soldiers would be able to judge distance sufficiently accurately
with ease: it's a core skill.

tom

The_Beast-master-dude ssys:

> Talk of fairness and the capability of fire controls does not

Hmmm. I've played in a few rather significantly sized games (~15-20
ships)
and hadn't noticed any slow down upon pre-measuring. Of course, no one
measured *each* *individual* *ship* to *each* *individual* *potential*
*target*, either! What we've done us just do basic range bands to groups of
ships ("this group here is within 24 mu, except those two ships over
there, who are at 26 and 28 mu"). Said information is shared with every-
one playing, so really only one person is doing the measuring, and all benefit
from it (rather than each individual person measuring). Secondary measuring is
done throughout the turn to help with the firing decision process, and these
are very quick: whip out tape, string it between firing ship and potential
targets, note range bands, make firing decisions. Takes 10 seconds. If that.
We all recognize the potential for someone to dally while measuring, which is
why we share the info with the group. And most everyone, when they take
secondary measurements, does it quickly, so as to not hold up the turn.

So, for me, pre-measuring doesn't slow things down. It usually takes far
more time trying to figure out where I'm going to put any salvo missiles
(assuming I'm playing with them! ;-) than it does to pre-measure ship
ranges/positions.

Mk

> Buddy Chamberlain wrote:

> Has anyone else played SGII like this? I just measure aproximate

A good variation on this is you declare the attack then measure. We do that.

> Our big slowdown is the one newbie who is constantly going "I

Ya know, thinking about it more, I realize that our/my biggest slow down
in a game is watching the die roll when I'm firing P-torps...

> as a last word, i'd add that i would support measuring ranges even in

Good point.:)

Mk

> Roger Books wrote:

> Our big slowdown is the one newbie who is constantly going "I

Yes with newbies we cut them slack, let thnme measure get a feel for the game
so they'll come back.

One innovation my group has developed is the banded dowel rod. I have not as
yet done one up for FT yet (I'm new, hi y'all!) but the concept applies
easily. I'm fairly sure the ones we use are three feet long, and the hobby
store has many diameters from which to shoose. Just paint or otherwise mark a
ring around the significant range boundaries. I'd think every 6 MU would be
perfect.

Bill Shatswell

In a message dated 08/20/1999 1:23:26 PM Central Daylight Time,
> thomas.anderson@university-college.oxford.ac.uk writes:

> exactly; you get out your tape measure, set it to 24 or whatever, put
you get
> to see what's in range and and what isn't in less than a second (with

In a message dated 08/20/1999 9:02:52 PM Central Daylight Time,
> BStrayCat@aol.com writes:

> the hobby

Ummm, *choose* even.

Bill