> Greetings, Folks!
> last
This is just one of those things, I suppose. In our gaming group, you don't
premeasure.
Ever.
I've been gaming with these people for about 15 years now, so this fact has
been solidly ingrained within my psyche. At this point, premeasuring just
seems...wrong. I'm not saying that it *is* wrong; just that it seems that way.
Not because it's (un)realistic, not because it slows things down, but because
it takes away a little of the uncertainty when you premeasure. And that takes
away a bit of the fun.
All of this is probably because of one of my earliest experiences gaming
with a different group, in which I watched one of the other players measure 24
inches from my unit of archers, and then carefully maneuver his spearmen (one
at a time) so that they were *just* over 24 inches away at all times. This
required them to leave the road and crawl along the edge of the board, you
understand. I think that this just stuck in my craw. Mind you, these were also
they kind of people who made continental drift a factor in their games
("Wasn't that hill 6 inches to the right, so my guys had cover behind it?"
"Um...no."), so I know that this is atypical behavior. Hey, I was 15 at the
time, and this was my second historical game...I'm allowed to be a little
bitter.
It's not something worth arguing about, but I think that it is something
worth keeping in mind as a factor in discussing new rules ans tactics --
not everyone does things the same way. If you're gaming with us, you don't
premeasure, so keep it in mind. It's like the way that you will very rarely
see a ship moving faster than 12" a turn; that's not a rule by any means,
that's just how we like to play. It's the same kind of thing, though. As long
as everything is established before the game starts, there's no problem.
Steve Jackson had it right. In Ogre Miniatures, he justifies
premeasuring...and then justifies NOT premeasuring...and then says that "It's
your game; you decide."
----Original Message-----
From: John C <john1x@hotmail.com>
To: gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU <gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU>
Date: Friday, August 20, 1999 11:59 AM
Subject: Re: premeasuring=holy wars
> Greetings, Folks!
[snip early gamer horror story]
Thank you for so eloquently proving my point.:)
> [snip early gamer horror story]
I do try.... But I must admit: I do find it interesting how every gaming group
has their own customs and taboos, ranging from the sensible ("The
infidel has placed his drink upon the Geo-Hex! He must die!") to the
somewhat less sensible ("Maybe you haven't heard...but around these parts,
anyone who blows on his dice before he rolls them is beaten
black-and-blue,
tarred, feathered, hanged, drawn, quatered, immolated, and then mercilessly
mocked. And then we use his ashes to give texture to the bases of our
figures.").
As I mentioned, I have to make a mental readjustment when talking about
things like placing SLM salvos -- average speed in an FT game around
here is between 7 and 10 inches. The really daring folk sometimes push it to
as
high as 15 before they slam into an asteroid. Anyone moving at 30 would
simply be waved to as they left the board, and told that he can re-enter
the playing field in another 1d6 turns. I can't quite get used to these people
who routinely use very high speeds.
> All of this is probably because of one of my earliest experiences
This has to be one of the biggest reasons I gave up gaming Epic. I was
continually running up against people like this - who had forgotten, or
never had, the "spirit" of the game and were merely manipulating the rules
so they could win. I used to play BattleTech at conventions - same
reason I stopped that. (In fact pretty much same reason I stopped playing BT
alltogether...)
This is why I love the GZG range so much. They have a much better feel of
espirit de corps (sp?) between players, which I feel the rules encourage. I
haven't yet run into anyone who manipulated the rules just so they can gain an
advantage. But then, I'm also older and wiser now and choose my opponents more
carefully.:)
> On Fri, 20 Aug 1999 18:56:14 GMT, "John C" <john1x@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Steve Jackson had it right. In Ogre Miniatures, he justifies
> "It's your game; you decide."
That's it, John.
Premeasure or not. Some people like pre-measuring because in a space
combat game it makes sense. Sensors in Star Trek seem to be able to give exact
ranges, why not FT. Then there are the people who are good at
pre-measuring,
and that becomes a factor that seems outside of a person's tactical ability.
Of course, there are also the people who measure with arms on the table and
checked shirts.
Some people hate pre-measuring because it slows down the game, and it
makes people move figures to artificial boundary distances to stay out of
range of enemy figures.
My feelings: depends on the game. I allow pre-measuring in FT, because I
think
it makes sense due to sensors. Also, since movement is pre-plotted with
built in errors during resolution, it's hard to optimize movement
artificially. I do
not allow pre-measuring in SG2 as it just doesn't seem... right,
somehow. You're firing at a spread out mass, not a point target.
However, in SG2 if a side is considered to be dug in, I DO allow
pre-measurement to various terrain features. The Israeli army used this
to good effect in the Yom Kippur War, so I allow it before the game starts.
After
that, no pre-measuring.
But that's just how our game group does it.
> Jeremy Sadler wrote:
> This has to be one of the biggest reasons I gave up gaming Epic. I was
Players manipulating the rules to win...I used to role-play with a guy
who did that.
When I still played D&D, my friend and I played an extreamly simple version of
it. (We never wrote it down, it would have probably filled both sides of a
single sheet...the rest of the game was "off the top of our heads".) One
session, we invited another friend to play with us. He allways played the
advanced version (lots of books of rules...) It was our worst session ever. He
could never adjust to such a simple game, and he kept trying to manipulate
things to his advantage. Then he wandered off with the party's map. When he
got himself into a jam, (a very elaborate trap) the rest of the party couldn't
find him. (The referee had so much fun bumping him off, he allowed the rest of
the party to watch...hehehe)