Powers That Be

31 posts · Nov 2 2001 to Nov 12 2001

From: Laserlight <laserlight@q...>

Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 22:05:14 -0500

Subject: Re: Powers That Be

From: Brian Bilderback <bbilderback@hotmail.com>

> 1. Where is the best place to read up on the history of the Canon

http://www.ftsr.org/gzg/gzghist.asp

> 2. Along the same vein, what is the best way to determine a

Kind of a tough order since your specs contradict each other--if
you're able to bloody anyone who invades you, then you should have influence
outside your own space. Or you have no FTL. However...I'd suggest that you
have one planet, that will leave out any obligations for FT and explaining why
one side's ships don't just nuke the other side's capital (the reason being,
neither side has ships). Give each
side a populatioin of, say, 5-10 million and you're set.

Or make the main colony on the planet someone else's--Indonesian,
perhaps, or a Hindu group of the ESU--and your guys are just minor
coloies and are cut off from NAC by hostilities. No need to terraform a new
planet, we've got plenty of room right here...

> 3. Given the nature of 2 of the 3 cultural groups I plan to make up

Tom Barclay can, when he gets a moment, which will be around
mid-to-late March.  Meanwhile, please  please please please don't make
them a NAC breakaway colony. Anything but that. I'd rather hear that the Good
Folk kidnapped 10th century Scots and Irishmen and took them to this planet.

From: Brian Bilderback <bbilderback@h...>

Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2001 19:18:27 -0800

Subject: Re: Powers That Be

> Laserlight wrote:

> > 2. Along the same vein, what is the best way to determine a

Let me re-phrase.  Influential, but not A POWER.  Better?

> Or you have no FTL. However...I'd

Or I might just revamp my parameters, given my interest in FT.

> > 3. Given the nature of 2 of the 3 cultural groups I plan to make up

Cool. I can wait.

> Meanwhile, please please please please don't make

That WAS my plan. Whyfor not? Is this a touchy subject among the list?
 I
had contemplated making the break PRIOR to the NAC, ie, a break from Britain.
But I don't know enough about the history to know if the NAC
existed pre-space colonization.

I'd rather hear that
> the Good Folk kidnapped 10th century Scots and Irishmen and took them

A bit futher than even *I* will stretch. Again, I'll have to see once I

read up on the history. I'm curious about national vs. splinter group vs
corporate colonization history.

From: Beth Fulton <beth.fulton@m...>

Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 14:21:34 +1100

Subject: RE: Powers That Be

G'day,

> 1. Where is the best place to read up on the history of the

The history (or most of it) can be found at one of the following:

http://www.ftsr.org/gzg/gzghist_ts.asp

http://fox.nstn.ca/~kaladorn/Gaming/gzghist.htm

The galactic encyclopaedia (a work in progress from many listers) is at

http://www.warpfish.com/jhan/ft/gzgpedia/

> 2. Along the same vein, what is the best way to determine a

I'd say stick with one (or maybe two) systems, it (they) can have multiple
planets of course;)

Beyond that say you share with other peoples - that's why I did with the
IAS, they have one system of their own and some Terran (Antarctic) holdings,
but most of their colonies are joint ventures in marginal areas (hot or cold)
claimed by other nations (which usually lack the expertise to develop the area
on their own).

I took a different route for the Henti (they were some of the first colony
ships, there was an accident and they ended up 400 yrs in the past and a heap
of distance away and don't run back into the rest of humanity until the
Xeno War has started), but I play with them as more sort of a spin-off
than an integrated part of the GZGverse.

> 3. Given the nature of 2 of the 3 cultural groups I plan to

I know a bit (maiden name being Strachan and all), but I don't doubt that
others can help you out too. What info are you after?

Cheers

From: Beth Fulton <beth.fulton@m...>

Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 14:23:44 +1100

Subject: RE: Powers That Be

G'day,

> >Meanwhile, please please please please don't make

Only because there's so many of them that its a wonder there's NAC left at
all, let alone a large a healthy "super-power" ;)

From: Sean Bayan Schoonmaker <schoon@a...>

Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2001 19:23:51 -0800

Subject: Re: Powers That Be

> On Thursday, November 1, 2001, at 07:18 PM, Brian Bilderback wrote:

> That WAS my plan. Whyfor not?

Let's just say that it's been grossly overused.

From: John Atkinson <johnmatkinson@y...>

Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 19:49:14 -0800 (PST)

Subject: RE: Powers That Be

> --- Beth.Fulton@csiro.au wrote:

> Only because there's so many of them that its a

Let me explain this.

There's a lot of Americans who just don't buy the NAC
and/or don't want to roll dice for King and Country.
But they don't want to try to work with some totally different culture that
they may not be familliar with.

So they make an ex-NAC colony populated by
ex-'Mericans who proceed to have a Boston Tea Party
and beat the Redcoats senseless and so on and soforth. It's getting boring.

Second-most boring is, IMNSHO, Scots.  How many
dissident Scottish colonies are there?

Why won't anyone do something original? Seperatist Basques, or Militant
Expansionist Swedes (The Restored Vasa Hegemony?), or Kurds, or Sihks, or
Carmelite Nuns, or breakaway Thais, or libertarian monarchist wackos (Oh, I
think that may be taken), or a restored Bavarian Monarchy, or Seperatist
Austrians, or Romanians, or crossdressing Nazi Eskimos, or Costa Ricans tired
of the Banana Republic atmosphere of the LLAR, or SOMETHING...

From: John Atkinson <johnmatkinson@y...>

Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 20:00:36 -0800 (PST)

Subject: Re: Powers That Be

> --- Brian Bilderback <bbilderback@hotmail.com> wrote:

> That WAS my plan. Whyfor not? Is this a touchy

About 60 years, IIRC. Best site for timeline data is Full Thrust Ship
Registry.

> A bit futher than even *I* will stretch. Again,

Officially, there's mostly national colonization, with some splinter groups.
Unofficially there's a lot more splinter groups. A couple corporates, but
Cyberpunk this ain't.

From: aebrain@a...

Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 16:13:26 +1100

Subject: Re: RE: Powers That Be

> The Full Metal Atkinson wrote:

> Second-most boring is, IMNSHO, Scots. How many

All of them.

> Why won't anyone do something original? Seperatist

Breakaway Thais - good idea. The Thai Royal Family ended up
in the OU (according to the Unofficial GZGpedia) along with a large retinue,
and they are a sizeable minority. Giving them a planet to call their own
(Krungthep?)would be quite reasonable.

> or libertarian monarchist

Alarishi has those. All of em I think.

There's the mad mob of the LEF who want to restore all of formerly French
Polynesia and New Caledonia to FSE rule. They might have their own system.

There's also the Hutt River Province, not actually in the OU
but not actually out of it either. The ex-FSE Battlecruisers
"Prince Leonard" and "Princess Shirl" are their total Navy, and they've got
mixed OU and IAS crews (much like NATO's AWACS aircraft have Luxembourgois
registration).

> or Costa

Quebecois? Newfies? Wallonaise vs Vlaams?

Armenians and Kurds (as you said) look to me like the best bets
for "serious" nations-without-homelands.

For "slightly silly", try Jesuits or Sikhs.

For "Silly", GZG has Nuns-with-Guns etc. So why not "Sisters of
Our Lady of Perpetual Chastisement"?

From: Brian Burger <yh728@v...>

Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 23:01:56 -0800 (PST)

Subject: Re: Powers That Be

> On Thu, 1 Nov 2001, Sean Bayan Schoonmaker wrote:

> On Thursday, November 1, 2001, at 07:18 PM, Brian Bilderback wrote:

To say the least. To expand on John A's comments, it seems like every Yank
who joins the list has their own private retooled version of the USA -
yet another breakaway NAC bit.

My theory is that all of these breakaway bits left on July 4, 2176; we'll be
hearing about the Centuri Tea Party any day now.

The list as a collective has developed a habit of coming down like a tonne
of rectangular building thingies on yet-another-NAC-rebel-group.

John's also got the most entertaining suggestions as to who else there is in
the world to make interesting and possibly playable star nations out of!

Of course, as a Canadian, I'm hugely amused by the NAC - civilizing the
Americans sounds like a great national mission! (just kidding!)

From: Donogh McCarthy <donoghmc@h...>

Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2001 09:12:01 +0000

Subject: RE: Powers That Be

I agree with the American/Scottish remarks, it is getting repetitive.

But I'd just say that if that's what people want to do with the Tuffleyverse
then off they go.

> Why won't anyone do something original? Seperatist >Basques, or

> [quoted text omitted]

Well I for one have the Confederation of Scandanavian Kingdoms (including
Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark and Iceland), which shares a defensive
alliance but nothing else (it is a confederation after all)

I just noticed that none of the countries are mentioned in the Tuffleyverse
(as far as I noticed) and that it gave me an excuse to set conflicts with the
ESU, and I could get away with conflicts with any of the major powers.

If I ever get my website up and running you'll see their designs for
FT/DS and even a bit of recent history

From: Alan and Carmel Brain <aebrain@w...>

Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 20:34:03 +1100

Subject: Re: Powers That Be

From: "Brian Burger" <yh728@victoria.tc.ca>

> Of course, as a Canadian, I'm hugely amused by the NAC - civilizing

Heck, civilising Newfies sounds hard enough.

From: KH.Ranitzsch@t... (K.H.Ranitzsch)

Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2001 11:15:06 +0100 (MET)

Subject: Re: Powers That Be

Donogh McCarthy schrieb:
> >

Not in the write-ups I think, but there are SG figures in cold-weather
gear for the "Scandinavian Federation".

Greetings Karl Heinz

From: Roger Books <books@m...>

Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 08:39:42 -0500 (EST)

Subject: Re: Powers That Be

On  1-Nov-01 at 22:24, Beth.Fulton@csiro.au (Beth.Fulton@csiro.au)
wrote:
> G'day,

So are there any colonies that were "lost"?   They could have been
lost through the paperwork drill or someone could have intentionally seen that
the records disappeared. Even: The NAC and one of the other super powers
colonized a world in disputed territory. Do to the incurrsions of the KV and
political expedience both sides have withdrawn their claim.

From: John Atkinson <johnmatkinson@y...>

Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 06:33:30 -0800 (PST)

Subject: Re: RE: Powers That Be

> --- aebrain@austarmetro.com.au wrote:

> Quebecois? Newfies? Wallonaise vs Vlaams ?

None wants to admit to being affiliated with Quebecois. And for someone to run
a Newfie planet, we might find someone after the Newfies get electricity and
indoor plumbing.

> Armenians and Kurds (as you said) look to me like

Sikhs aren't slightly silly. They run their own
chunks of of the Indian subcontinent for many-many
years before the Brits showed up. They're running an active guerilla war
trying to throw the Indians out of the Punjab. And they can actually fight,
unlike most
of the third-rate principalities the Brits kicked
over.

> For "Silly", GZG has Nuns-with-Guns etc. So why not

There's a reference in a Cyberpunk supplement (one of the Chromebooks) to the
"Holy Order of the Perpetual Railgun." Kid you not.

But seriously, the Templars have been revived. I've been considering having
the Hospitallars becoming more militant and buys some ships to kill Kra'Vak.

From: Sean Bayan Schoonmaker <schoon@a...>

Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2001 07:15:25 -0800

Subject: Re: Powers That Be

> On Thursday, November 1, 2001, at 07:49 PM, John Atkinson wrote:

> There's a lot of Americans who just don't buy the NAC

Oh, it's not just us that get uppity. You should see the uproar from listers
in that part of the world at some of the stuff I come up with
for the Scan-Fed. You can't really fault people for wanting to believe
the best of their respective homelands.

Personally, I find the NAC history to be lots of fun, and wouldn't dream

of "rewriting" it. It is, after all, just a game.

From: Brian Bilderback <bbilderback@h...>

Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2001 08:12:43 -0800

Subject: RE: Powers That Be

Well, my reason for choosing Scots/Irish/Celts in general had to do with
my own ancestry. But if they've been done to death, I have another group in
mind. And since THAT group is American, perhaps I can say they were an
American colony before the American inclusion in the NAC (THIS is why I need
to know the history), and they just never accepted inclusion. I had even
considered that route with my Gaelic colonies.

Brian

"The Irish are the only race of people on Earth for which psychoanalysis is of
no use."

                                 - S. Freud

> From: John Atkinson <johnmatkinson@yahoo.com>

From: bbrush@u...

Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 10:38:10 -0600

Subject: RE: Powers That Be

Just because I'm a nice guy I would be happy to share my personal pet project,
The New Irish Republic. It's not an NAC spinter (because Ireland wasn't part
of the UK at the time the NAC was formed). We've got 1 planet
colonized and 2 with mining stations out on the ass-end of nowhere.

E-mail me directly if you want to talk about it.

Bill

"Brian Bilderback"

<bbilderback@hotmail.com> To:
gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
Sent by: cc:

                    owner-gzg-l@lists.CSUA.Be       Subject:     RE:
Powers That Be rkeley.EDU

                    11/02/01 10:12 AM

                    Please respond to gzg-l

Well, my reason for choosing Scots/Irish/Celts in general had to do with
my own ancestry. But if they've been done to death, I have another group in
mind. And since THAT group is American, perhaps I can say they were an
American colony before the American inclusion in the NAC (THIS is why I need
to know the history), and they just never accepted inclusion. I had even
considered that route with my Gaelic colonies.

Brian

"The Irish are the only race of people on Earth for which psychoanalysis is of
no use."

                                 - S. Freud

> From: John Atkinson <johnmatkinson@yahoo.com>

From: John Atkinson <johnmatkinson@y...>

Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 14:23:27 -0800 (PST)

Subject: RE: Powers That Be

> --- bbrush@unlnotes.unl.edu wrote:

Heh... The Irish Question. How many times have we done it over and over on the
list? I really wish Jon Tuffley would make a pronouncement. Is Ireland part of
NAC or FSE or Independant? Is Northern Ireland part of NAC or joined to rest
of Ireland, or jointly policed neutral zone?

From: John Atkinson <johnmatkinson@y...>

Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 14:36:44 -0800 (PST)

Subject: Re: Powers That Be

--- Sean Bayan Schoonmaker <s_schoon@pacbell.net>
wrote:

> listers in that part of the world at some of the

Hey, is that stuff posted? Where? If not can you
e-mail to me?

From: WJAL21@a...

Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 17:43:23 EST

Subject: Re: Powers That Be

In a message dated 02/11/01 22:25:18 GMT Standard Time,
> johnmatkinson@yahoo.com writes:

> Heh. . . The Irish Question. How many times have we

Do you think NAC would let Eire remain totally independent? And even at this
point of time there are people in the Republic of Ireland who aren't so happy
about the EU. I could imagine them lured into being a sort of affiliate of the
NAC. Of

course they would maintain the pretence of independence, but accept the trade
and other kickbacks. And then there is always the fact that the irish are only
really happy when arguing with the english. They either fight with them or for
them. I could see them providing mercenary forces for protecting NAC planets
that have been recently "liberated" from another major power. Actually I have
quite a few ideas on the topic. And NO I don't think we should be a neutral
zone!

John

From: Laserlight <laserlight@q...>

Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 18:00:55 -0500

Subject: Re: RE: Powers That Be

> > or libertarian monarchist

The main ethnic groups of the AE are Iberian Portuguese, Brazilian, German,
Russian, and Confederate American. We do have Neu Wurttemberg (not Bavaria), I
wouldn't be surprised by separatist Austrians, Romanians are pretty likely,
and as for the crossdressing Nazi Esquimaux, well, no one has gotten around to
mentioning it to me but as long as they pay the rent on time and don't bother
the neighbors, why not?

From: John Atkinson <johnmatkinson@y...>

Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 15:01:40 -0800 (PST)

Subject: Re: Powers That Be

> --- WJAL21@aol.com wrote:

> Do you think NAC would let Eire remain totally

Possibly--Ireland is a cursed nuisance to run and
tends to cost more in expenditures for military expeditions to keep it
conquered than it pays in taxes.

> I could imagine them lured into being a sort of

"We have a flag, and make our own postage stamps, and we do have an army,
honest, it's just a little small. The fact that we don't bother checking
passports at the airport is trivial."

> I could see them providing mercenary forces for

I see Irish regiments in practically every major power's army. At one point I
ran down the list of nations that have or had Irish regiments. Basically every
major power in the last 500 years and a lot of the minor ones.

From: Laserlight <laserlight@q...>

Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 18:08:31 -0500

Subject: Re: Powers That Be

> I agree with the American/Scottish remarks, it is getting repetitive.
But I'd just say that if that's what people want to do with the Tuffleyverse
then off they go.

Oh sure, do whatever you want, just don't tell the List about it...

> Well I for one have the Confederation of Scandanavian Kingdoms

See also, Scandinavian Federation aka ScanFed.

From: bbrush@u...

Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 17:11:04 -0600

Subject: Re: Powers That Be

Well the British and several other sets of invaders have found out the hard
way that trying to "conquer" Ireland is a losing proposition.  :-)

As far as my PSB for why the NIR hasn't been conquered by one of the big
super-powers goes, they are situated in a pocket between the NAC and the
ESU and neither of them want the other to have the systems. To add to the mix
they have close ties to the UN, and at least a passing relationship with the
Confederation of Celtic States and the Ghurkas.

When I last put some work into the NIR I was developing a two part military
force. There was the NIDF (Defense Force), and the NIEF (Expeditionary force).
The NIEF was a mercenary force when necessary, or took part in UN actions as
needed. Minimal "force projection" capability, and certainly nothing one of
the major powers would take notice of.

I had a complete tech-base, socio-political background worked up,
including idiosyncrasies that fit my mood. Since I'm primarily a tread head
I've played very little FT with them, although I did a lot of design work.
Probably my favorite ship came out of that, the CL Fearless. The problem being
that in FT anything smaller than a BB has problems with going "poof" before it
does anything useful.

One thing that's happening currently (IIRC) plays very nicely into my
"Independent Ireland" psuedo-history is that the Irish economy is
currently one of the hottest in the world, having been bolstered by Intel
opening a plant, and several other big companies moving offices there.

Bill

**********************Reply Separator**************

WJAL21@aol.com

Sent by: To:
gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
                    owner-gzg-l@lists.CSUA.Be       cc:

rkeley.EDU Subject: Re: Powers That Be

                    11/02/01 04:43 PM

                    Please respond to gzg-l

Do you think NAC would let Eire remain totally independent? And even at this
point of time there are people in the Republic of Ireland who aren't so happy
about the EU. I could imagine them lured into being a sort of affiliate of the
NAC. Of course they would maintain the pretence of independence, but accept
the trade and other kickbacks. And then there is always the fact that the
irish are only really happy when arguing with the english. They either fight
with them or for them. I could see them providing mercenary forces for
protecting NAC planets that have been recently "liberated" from another major
power. Actually I have quite a few ideas on the topic. And NO I don't think we
should be a neutral zone!

John

From: Richard Kirke <richardkirke@h...>

Date: Sat, 03 Nov 2001 00:33:38 +0000

Subject: RE: Powers That Be

Maybe this sounds a bit obvious...

Why not use a Celtic/whatever feel to a fleet/regiment and so on, the
"Emerald fleet" can be a series of Irish theemed ships, with Irish guard

troop compliments (after all thats how it works for the British army at the
moment).

Why not the New-York/New-York rifles (so good they even have guns), that
way
you can have as theemed as you want (give them their own cap-badge,
shades etc, the whole Nine yards (or 8.226 meters for those this side of the
pond). This requires no revolution or unlikely garden party, just some fun
with the paintbrush.

Though I suppose crushing the "Freedom" (said in a slightly
auzie/american
accent) fighters under the Great British (oops sorry, I meant Anglian) heel.

From: John Atkinson <johnmatkinson@y...>

Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 18:03:14 -0800 (PST)

Subject: Re: Powers That Be

> --- bbrush@unlnotes.unl.edu wrote:

Nonsense. Conquering Ireland is easy. Killing enough of them that they realize
they've been conquered is hard. If the Irish were ever bereft of foreign
invaders to fight, they'd simply divvie into factions and merrily kill each
other.

From: WJAL21@a...

Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 15:48:31 EST

Subject: Re: Powers That Be

In a message dated 03/11/01 02:04:02 GMT Standard Time,
> johnmatkinson@yahoo.com writes:

> Nonsense. Conquering Ireland is easy. Killing enough

Unfortunately very true John Law

From: WJAL21@a...

Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 15:54:32 EST

Subject: Re: Powers That Be

In a message dated 02/11/01 23:24:48 GMT Standard Time,
> bbrush@unlnotes.unl.edu writes:

> One thing that's happening currently (IIRC) plays very nicely into my

Actually at the minute its on a cool down, with fears of a recession around
the corner. They also seem to be growing more unhappy about changing over to
the Euro next year. There was even a campaign started to keep the Punt and tie
it to Pound Stirling (UK) Funny old world

From: Glenn M Wilson <triphibious@j...>

Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2001 20:31:27 EST

Subject: Re: Powers That Be

On Thu, 1 Nov 2001 23:01:56 -0800 (PST) Brian Burger
> <yh728@victoria.tc.ca> writes:
<snip>
> Of course, as a Canadian, I'm hugely amused by the NAC - civilizing

<grin> The Native American Circle Diplomatic Representative says, "Mission
Impossible!" <VBG>

Gracias,

From: Oerjan Ohlson <oerjan.ohlson@t...>

Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 19:21:23 +0100

Subject: RE: Powers That Be

> John Atkinson wrote:

> Why won't anyone do something original? [snip] ...or Militant

That one is simple :-)

The only Militant Expansionist Swedes available are skinheads and bikers, and
their IQs are so low that when they fire a stolen LAW at a building full of
people they fail to kill anyone (IIRC the worst casualty got some nasty burns
and a broken eardrum, but that was it). Too stupid to manage

spaceships or AFVs; in SG2 I'd count them as "Yellow" (D4 quality), albeit
with quite heavy weaponry...

Later,

From: John Atkinson <johnmatkinson@y...>

Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 09:40:42 -0800 (PST)

Subject: RE: Powers That Be

> --- Oerjan Ohlson <oerjan.ohlson@telia.com> wrote:

Geez, you guys got boring. Really promising for a while there. Kind of wierd
to think of a time when the major European Powers were France, Sweden,
Austria/Spain (those slutty Hapsburgs. . . ), and
Poland.