I have been thinkign on some stuff lately and I've come up with what I think
is an interesting new minor power. My idea was for a developement of the
Catholic Church in the future.
What I envision is a single world, I'm calling it Nova Roma. This world would
be in FSE space but anexed to The Church. The world is an interesting enigma,
politically. Because it is technically owned by The Church the FSE does not
have a military presence on the planet. To preserve access to the world and to
keep peace among the various international powers who would be at play there,
UNSC provides system protection as well as maintainign routes to and from the
planet and the escort of ships travellign these routes. The Church itself
would maintain a support and defensive navy but nothign as grande as to be a
threat to any world.
The main military arm of The Church would be an enhanced, much more robust
contingent of Swiss Guards maybe a couple batallians of infantry and some
armor assets. These forces would be for defense of the planet and the key
metropolis, New Vatican City.
This leaves a few questions however. Are the Swiss still just a
terrestrial power or are they trans-stellar? Also, what minis would
work well for Swiss Guards? Any comments, suggestions.
Eli
A couple of questions? Given that you've proposed a world allocated to the
Catholic Church, I suspect that the Church would move a many of it's resources
to this new world. Some of these resources are, yet today, valuable
properties. Some of the finest artwork and possibly the most valuable (and
enigmatic) libraries and archives in existence are owned and controlled by the
Vatican. A new world run by the Vatican would probably have schools,
research establishments, libraries and other such items.
I think that this would need a somewhat larger contigent than you've
suggested.
Also, this give you fascinating options for the Church Militant; I've always
wanted to see the First Benedictine Armored Cav as well as the Jesuit Light
Infantry, heya?
Pat Connaughton
e-mail - ptconn@earthlink.net
ICQ # 2535086 "Let joy be unconfined. Let there be dancing in the streets,
drinking in the saloons, and necking in the parlor."
--Groucho Marx (as Otis Driftwood)
"A Night At the Opera"
[quoted original message omitted]
Forgive me. Is there a significant difference?
on 03.4.1 1:39 PM, Mike Hillsgrove at mikeah@cablespeed.com scribbleth:
> At some point after being ejected
> Given that you've proposed a world allocated to the Catholic Church,
And Nuns. Finally a use for the Nuns with Guns miniatures. I finally
get to do to Sister Mary Margret (aka Sister Mary Thumbscrews) what I've
always wanted to do. Yea, I remember the pain. At some point after
being ejected from Catholic School they sent me to a Military School, which
was much easier and far more pleasent.
In the words of Bob Hope, "Thanks for the memories"..
My initial concept was a bit conservative. I can see them having a rather
sizable military with the Swiss Guards formign the elite only. I imagine it
would beh ard for them to build up too much power inside FSE controlled space,
but as logn as most of it was planetside, there wouldn't be too much of a
threat.
I imagine that the military units of this world would be pretty much
conventional, maybe with nifty eclesiastical names for show, but pretty much
regular army.
Glad to see that ideas strikes a note with some folks.
Eli
[quoted original message omitted]
Also, this give you fascinating options for the Church Militant; I've always
wanted to see the First Benedictine Armored Cav as well as the Jesuit Light
Infantry, heya?
Well Chris "Laserlight" DeBoe has the Knights Templar done up at:
http://quixnet.net/~deboe/sg/to/index.htm
Don M schrieb:
> Also, this give you fascinating options for the Church
If you want to look at it from a "realistic" point of view...
[ Yeah, I know ;-) ]
It definitely would be a waste of brainpower to employ Jesuits as light
infantry. They all are supposed to have two full-fledged university
degrees, one in Theology and one in another subject. I could see them doing
staff work or weapons research, but not as Grunts. Similar limits would apply
to most other orders, based on their charters and philosophy.
Which shouldn't stop you from reviving the military orders.
After all, the Knights of Malta still exist:
http://www.orderofmalta.org/index.asp?idlingua=5
They are active in Afghanistan and in the Iraq conflict. No kidding (in spite
of todays date)!
and the Teutonic order exists, too:
http://www.deutscher-orden.de/
And here's the web page of the Swiss guard:
http://www.schweizergarde.org/
And with celibacy and other deterrents to being a monk, only a small part of
the military (most likely the leadership) will be actual members of the
orders. The others will be hired professionals, mercenaries or militias.
BTW, GZG do fine fighting nuns in habit and power armour. I too, have some of
them:
C:\KHR\Web\gallery\sf_nuns.html
Greetings Karl Heinz
Don M schrieb:
> Also, this give you fascinating options for the Church
If you want to look at it from a "realistic" point of view...
[ Yeah, I know ;-) ]
It definitely would be a waste of brainpower to employ Jesuits as light
infantry. They all are supposed to have two full-fledged university
degrees, one in Theology and one in another subject. I could see them doing
staff work or weapons research, but not as Grunts. Similar limits would apply
to most other orders, based on their charters and philosophy.
Which shouldn't stop you from reviving the military orders.
After all, the Knights of Malta still exist:
http://www.orderofmalta.org/index.asp?idlingua=5
They are active in Afghanistan and in the Iraq conflict. No kidding (in spite
of todays date)!
and the Teutonic order exists, too:
http://www.deutscher-orden.de/
And here's the web page of the Swiss guard:
http://www.schweizergarde.org/
With celibacy and the other deterrents to being a monk, only a small part of
the military (most likely the leadership) will be actual members of the
orders. The others will be hired professionals, mercenaries or militias.
BTW, GZG do fine fighting nuns in habit and power armour. I too, have some of
them:
C:\KHR\Web\gallery\sf_nuns.html
Does anybody produce fighting SF monks?
Greetings Karl Heinz
> New Vatican State and the First Benedictine Cavalry
A response from within the NSL could be in the form of the
religiously-inspired Teutonics, or from the FSE in the form of the
Knights of Compostella, etc, etc.
Given this suggests some extremism, it gives some problems in terms of
motivation and driving force when faced with the non-catholic forces....
..a little bit close to current affairs at the end there, I think... :-/
Have fun,
My concept for The Church militaries was somewhat more conventional than most
of what is being discussed. The unit names might harken back to the old
military orders, but I don't recon I'd be having robed combatants zipping
around. I am imagining fatigues and rifles, camouflage and the whole lot.
Now, do you standardize your orders' uniforms or od you let them come in
"regional dress". I am in favor of standardized gear for the sake of
logistics. Though it might be cool to have Swabians in hard armor fighting
along side kepied FSE, etc.
And where is Sitzerland in the GZG universe, anyhow?
Eli
> One of the most obvious and potentially interesting aspects of this is
:-/
> Have fun,
Oh yes. A military school is run by reason, there is a purpose to the pain.
Emotions are detached. Nuns require no reason, logic, or restraint. Justice is
random and carried out with religious fervor. I could talk to the other guys,
regardless of rank or class. Nuns gave orders, there was no other
communication. I have fond memories of the guys I went through military school
with. My mind has blocked out most of what happened at Catholic school. I
greatly admire my teachers and Commandant, I despise and loathe those folks at
old Holy Trinity.
Nope, I'll recommend a Military School or College to any young man. It's a
good place to learn who you are and what you can do. If I'ld stayed in a
Catholic School, I'ld be a serial killer today.
Note that Catholic Schools today no longer have the old nuns and all of the
pain giving devices. Mostly secular lay teachers. Different ball game.
Although the threat of sending my daughters there was useful for obtaining
compliance for a good while. I am planning on sending my son to VMI if he has
the grades.
I think the only difference in the uniform would be the collar.
Michael Brown
[quoted original message omitted]
> KHR:
The Hospitallers descendents also include the very active St John's
Ambulance Brigade in the UK: their charitable/peace/medical mission
seems to have been growing over the last century. Given they started as a
hospital order, moved into a military order, then back into a very committed
hospital order it might be that they would struggle to go back
into being a military order, though the edges of "military defence of the
sick", one of their tenets from their acceptance as a military order in
1137 IIRC (as opposed to a non-military order), could be stretched.
If they did, then LaserL's Mission Lance looks ideal, perhaps with the
inclusion of another pair of medical specialists. Alternatively, one could
easily surmise knights/senior brethren as PA troops; a general body of
"sergeants" (as opposed to _a_ sergeant) being supporting heavy/armoured
infantry or specialists; perhaps a class of "Turcopoles" as Light
Cavalry/Scouts/Obs/LI; and professionals and mercenaries as the
escorting "line" infantry and hospital defenses.
Twists? The Knights Hospitaller dealt with the Assassins; the demand they do
not raise arms against other Christians; perhaps the order's refusal to take
part in any conflict in which the KH were *not* defending the sick; a
sergeant "turning", much as Roger Flower (later Roger de Fleur/Flor ;-)
)
did at the evacuation of Acre (fyi: he charged extortionate amounts to wealthy
citizens to allow them to be rescued on one of the order's galleys, and later
went on to head up the Catalan Grand Company).
Not to mention that they could be seen as the armoured field hospitals of
the future, perhaps even non-partisan?
Have fun,
Aaargh! My last post might have read that de Flor was a Hospitaller. Apologies
for misleading anyone. I am pretty sure he was a Templar sergeant, not from
the Hospital.
Have fun,
Well,
I am thinking that the Hospitallers would be a good name and origin for a
field medical unit. I'm not thinkign I'll go with the ordered rutualised
titles, but definitely the origins and unit prid could draw from ancient
roots, much like many of the British units and the US's adherance to Cavalry
tradditions for motorized infantry, armor, and air-cav units.
Jezzuits might take up the role of the Vatican's intel community with
tac-teams and such. The Swiss Guards could form a central, bodyguard
unit within Vatican city itself.
Eli
[quoted original message omitted]
Tim said:
> If [Hospitallers went back to a "defend the sick" mission]
The Missions lance is the Knights Templar's special forces unit; for a
"defense of a hospital/enclave" mission, they'd normally use a cavalry
or assault squadron. TO's from
http://quixnet.net/~deboe/ , go to StarGrunt > TO
> Twists? The Knights Hospitaller dealt with the Assassins;
Had them as vassals at one point, in fact, IIRC
> the demand they
And the requirement that they always offer battle against the infidel, no
matter how badly they're outnumbered.