Poll on HB Items

OK, there's two concepts out there that could work, but I need a feel for what
people WANT.

[1] Dean's idea to have a BPS simply generate half its capacity in EPs
every turn. No dice rolling.

[2] Re-rolls on 6's for damage.

Opinions?

> On 2-Feb-00 at 11:00, Sean Bayan Schoonmaker (schoon@aimnet.com) wrote:

> [1] Dean's idea to have a BPS simply generate half its capacity in EPs

Yes.

> [2] Re-rolls on 6's for damage.

No, changes the system. Every other "roll a d6 and read damage" system
does not use re-rolls.  P-torps, wave guns, SMs.

> Sean Bayan Schoonmaker wrote:

1) Simple method, fair, minimun time/turn to account for it - I support
it. 2) I have mixed feelings on this one, so I will not vote.

Chris

> Sean Bayan Schoonmaker wrote:

Works for me.

> [2] Re-rolls on 6's for damage.

I would be a bit against this. P-torps and the like don't get a
reroll on a 6.

Mk

> Sean Bayan Schoonmaker wrote:

> OK, there's two concepts out there that could work, but I need a feel

The die rolling system adds an element of suspense to proceedings (especially
if the die rolls are done in secret so that your opponent has no idea of how
much power you have available this turn). Ideally I'd say use average
(2-3-3-4-4-5) dice instead of d6 but since FT is a purely d6 game we
can't do that. I can think of a number of systems that could generate results
that are random but less variable than rolling a d6, but all are more
complicated than both the above methods. On balance I'd go with die rolling.

> [2] Re-rolls on 6's for damage.

Why not? It adds to the flavour of HBWs being potential ship killers rather
than just a heavier weapon. The points values would need tweaking to reflect
the additional damage capability, though.

> On Wed, 2 Feb 2000 11:02:58 -0500 (EST), Roger Books writes:
wrote:
> [1] Dean's idea to have a BPS simply generate half its capacity in

I'll second this.

1) Yes, something simple.

2) No rerolls. The trouble is, since the only limit on range is the minus to
damage, with a reroll you have an infinite range if you roll well. We'd need
to introduce new rules to limit the range, and that just feels clunky.

(At range 60", -9 to the die roll, I roll a 6, then a 6, then a 3.  15
- 9 = 6 point of damage).

> OK, there's two concepts out there that could work, but I need a feel

I like this idea.
> [2] Re-rolls on 6's for damage.

I'm against re-rolling 6's for damage.  Systems like this can be
unbalancing, and are difficult to generate accurate point values for.

> [1] Dean's idea to have a BPS simply generate half its capacity in EPs

I don't really like the Die Roll for Energy Points. It is a rated ship's
system and not a fluctuating thing. A generator provides X TeraWatts etc etc
etc Maybe have die rolls for the first few years of deployment until the tech
is straightened out.

> [2] Re-rolls on 6's for damage.

I am very much in favor of re-rolls.  A lucky shot can come at any
time and should be reflected in the weapon stats. IMO, any time a weapon is
capable of piercing or has a concentrated blast etc, a reroll should be used.

-=Kr'rt

> On 2-Feb-00 at 13:13, Kr'rt (kwasTAKETHISOUT@optonline.net) wrote:

P-torps have a concentrated blast, should I have a re-roll there?

As a matter of fact SMs have a concentrated blast, I should get a reroll with
those also.

G'day Schoon,

> OK, there's two concepts out there that could work, but I need a feel

Does sound simpler but you lose that will they won't they dynamic which I
personally find thrilling (but then I guess I'm warped).

> [2] Re-rolls on 6's for damage.

First reaction would be yes, but if its to hard to cope with then its not
essential. Just like the idea of a lucky shot and KAPOW! How were
re-roll
abilities costed into beams (and boy have I seen them do dome mammoth
re-roll damage!).

Cheers

Beth

In a message dated 02/02/2000 9:58:55 AM Central Standard Time,
> schoon@aimnet.com writes:

> OK, there's two concepts out there that could work, but I need a feel

This sounds agreeable to me. It is simpler and cleaner. I can live with this.

> [2] Re-rolls on 6's for damage.

The strongest argument against this is the pulse-topedo/missile one.  I
WAS
for the re-rolls.  I wanted to remain true to the EFSB.  But the
internal consistency of the FT mechanics is more important to me. Another link
could be historical. IIRC we discussed the HB as a UN weapon developed from
existing pulse-torpedo technology.  I don't know if that was ever agreed

upon, but it is how I will play my UN minis (as soon as I order them).

I guess if I want the godawefullyexpensivemegadestructoheatrayweaponofdeath I
will have to use the nova cannon and wave guns. (I liked Brian's Focused Wave
Gun. I may use that as a Romulan mauler device to convert one of my SFB
friends over to the side of good.)

Bill

> [1] Dean's idea to have a BPS simply generate half its capacity in EPs

I prefer Dean's recommendation. Simpler so it fits the KISS ideology
principal.

> [2] Re-rolls on 6's for damage.

Okay... I've changed my mind to.  Thanks to Indy's remarks about P-Torps
not
re-rolling and Matthew's comments on the unlimited range head-ache IMO
don't
do re-rolls.  I knew there was a reason I read most of the mails
generated
by this list  ;-)   (well usually)

> Sean Bayan Schoonmaker wrote:

> On Wed, 2 Feb 2000, Roger Books wrote:

> On 2-Feb-00 at 11:00, Sean Bayan Schoonmaker (schoon@aimnet.com)
wrote:
> > [1] Dean's idea to have a BPS simply generate half its capacity in

hmm. the uncertainty is nice, in that it makes the system a little more fun to
play (imho), although there is perhaps enough randomness in the firing anyway.
otoh, the simplicity is good, KISS. the rate of charging (half per turn,
quarter per turn, etc) would obviously need to be figured out in playtest.
basically, if a lack of charge in the capacitor is never an issue, it charges
too quickly!

thought: take the randomness out of firing (say it always does damage equal to
the number of energy points used times 2 for short range, 1 for medium range
and 0.5 for long range), and put high randomness into the
energy system - use beam dice with rerolls, and have some leak out of
the capacitor each turn, or something. not a serious proposal, just a seed.

> > [2] Re-rolls on 6's for damage.
system
> does not use re-rolls. P-torps, wave guns, SMs.

i'll drink to that.

tom

<< >> [1] Dean's idea to have a BPS simply generate half its capacity in EPs
> every turn. No dice rolling.

I like the idea of a constant recharge rate. I was under the impression that
we are playing in a universe where the laws of physics are a constant. A
variable recharge rate makes me think of some of the overtop things I have
seen in the GW games; 5in6 chance of doing good damage 1in6 chance it
backfires on the user. I have serious doubts that weapons that are that

variable would ever be mass produced or used by the troops they were issued
to.

> [2] Re-rolls on 6's for damage.

I am in favor of rerolls.

> Matthew L. Seidl wrote:
"2) No rerolls. The trouble is, since the only limit on range is the minus to
damage, with a reroll you have an infinite range if you roll well. We'd need
to introduce new rules to limit the range, and that just feels clunky.

 (At range 60", -9 to the die roll, I roll a 6, then a 6, then a 3.  15
 - 9 = 6 point of damage)."

This is not the type of rerolls that I am in favor of. If the modifiers from
range and shields equal -6 then no initial damage is possible and no
rerolls would be allowed. Though I would apply range and shield moddifiers
only to the initial roll. I would like a way to use some of the energy points
to offset range penalties. Example: a class 3 emitter which can fire 6 dice of
damage could use 6 points of energy to fire 1 dice of damage at range 36 with
no modifier to the dice.

> > > [2] Re-rolls on 6's for damage.
system
> > does not use re-rolls. P-torps, wave guns, SMs.

One point on this that has not been made is that weapons that ignore screens
do not get re-rolls.  Only weapons that are effected by screens get to
use
re-rolls.  During the playtesting of FB1, and the initial testing of
re-rolls, I believe this was one of the reasons to add re-rolls, to
balance out the beams against weapons that ignored screens.

So to follow that rule of FT physics, HBs would get the re-roll if they
are effected by screens (which I think they should be).

My preferences are to have the re-roll but the initial die had to result
in
a hit for a re-roll (so max range is 36").  I'd also be in favor of
keeping
the range modifiers on the re-rolls (but not the -1 or -2 mod for
screens). A Class 3 beam that hits at long range (say 30") does not get to
roll 3d6 on
a re-roll so why should a HB that hits at the same range get to ignore
all if it's range modifiers?

In a message dated 2/2/00 9:58:55 AM Central Standard Time,
schoon@aimnet.com writes:

<< [1] Dean's idea to have a BPS simply generate half its capacity in EPs
every turn. No dice rolling.>> Yes, fits in with KISS

<< [2] Re-rolls on 6's for damage.>>
Definitely!!! Gives you the slice & dice action we know and love from B5