I got in an order of GZG stuff today, Dirtside minis, most of which I ordered
on sheer whim. Most of it is rather obvious what to do with (syntax sounds
garbled, but it's 0007 in the morning over here, and I've spent 12 hours at
work. I'm getting fuzzy). But there was a pack
of Police/security grav vehicles I'm not sure what to do with. They
are fairly cute minis (how many minis do I own that I describe as
'cute'?). Translating them to Dirtside poses a few problems. Size-wise
they could fit either size 2 or 3, but I'm leaning to 2. But the rules are set
up for military equipment, and at any rate just making it
another size-2 APC for two unarmored infantry elements would be so. . .
blase. Any suggestions? I'm given to understand that the mini is based on a
25mm resin kit used for Stargrunt? How do those rules treat it? I'm assuming
it does NOT come with free APSW (How many Mk 19s have YOU seen on police
cars?), and that Amnesty Intergalactic would frown upon equipping them with
APFCs...
Actually, a SC2/3 grav/hover APC is not too blase at all when you're
talking about use against civvies, usually armed with nothing better than
shotguns &
pistols - it all depends on context...
Also, what's the most popular (& best-looking) light-bar color scheme
for police vehicles? Here in the States they are starting to look like the
little
ships from 'Close Encounters'; Red, blue, white, yellow, newscam-light
blue-
white, etc. I need to paint those little guys, and engage in some urban
mayhem. Noah V. Doyle
> You wrote:
Being a civilized person, I'm going to have equip with water cannon and tear
gas grenade launchers instead of the RFACs...
> Also, what's the most popular (& best-looking) light-bar color scheme
I dunno, but I now have a reason to use the flourescent blue and red
paint I picked up--the new Ral Partha stuff.
Depending on which state you are in, American Lightbars go from the
old-fasioned Gum-Drop light to Vegas on Wheeles. I've seen low-profile
candles that look more like ski-racks (stealth version) and I've seen
the Wedge bars that have about 15 nodes plus ally lights, side bar lights,
wig-wags and other items. In Maine recently we saw the new Standing
Light that deploys into a much larger system when activated (Yeah, that won't
be prone to malfunction... <he said sarcasticly>) Most Police go for blue but
some county sherrifs have red. Counties were finally abolished in
Massachusetts and the the many, many different police forces were consolidated
into either local police or State Police. I've seen Red and Blue but that
isn't very common (excepts on Fire Engines now adays.)
I'd say go for Blue with BLINDING WHITE STROBES. That seems to be the norm,
well around here at least.
--Pete
jatkins6@ix.netcom.com (John Atkinson)
04/30/98 10:51 AM
Please respond to FTGZG-L@bolton.ac.uk
To: FTGZG-L@bolton.ac.uk
cc: (bcc: Peter Mancini/OneSource)
Subject: Re: Police Grav vans
> You wrote:
Being a civilized person, I'm going to have equip with water cannon and tear
gas grenade launchers instead of the RFACs...
> Also, what's the most popular (& best-looking) light-bar color scheme
I dunno, but I now have a reason to use the flourescent blue and red
paint I picked up--the new Ral Partha stuff.
> I got in an order of GZG stuff today, Dirtside minis, most of which I
The little van you have is one of the old CMD Future Wars line, and is
actually NOT based on a 25mm mini - the police APC in the 25mm range is
a
wheeled one. How about, instead of the free APSW, assuming a non-lethal
riot-control weapon such as a gas grenade launcher, water cannon or
similar
- uses the same rules as an APSW but all it does is suppress and/or
force a
confidence check among civvies/rioters etc., not kill?
Just a few random musings, all untested of course.....
> John Atkinson wrote:
...
> of Police/security grav vehicles I'm not sure what to do with. They
...
> it? I'm assuming it does NOT come with free APSW (How many Mk 19s
John,
Do you have any military police in your unit yet? I don't play SG or DS
so I don't know if this would work:
-Sure, they would fight as unarmored infantry with a personnel carrier.
Modern US MPs are well equipped infantry with HUMMVs.
-Give them command & control functions to allow extra movement for other
units and to help restore morale. Modern MPs direct traffic in the rear areas,
get the troops to the front faster and control stragglers.
-Mk-19s on police cars? Well, the US MPs almost got those 40mm
automatic grenade launchers on their HUMMVs. They make good weapons to defend
against airdrops and to slow up breakthroughs into the rear area.
Well, having a chance to do some research (3 bank robberies _this
morning_), I
can conclusively say that our police lights are red & blue, with yellow
&
white thrown in occasionally for good measure. Y'know, we could have used some
APSWs...
Actually, I was thinking of using MPs as the possibly-apocryphal KGB
'barrage
battalions', APSW/ATGM equipped troops whose job it is to convince
stragglers/retreating units that the enemy is less dangerous than they
are....
Something else to think about for SG2: one of they suspects from a
robbery/murder today eluded a lot of cops for several hours. They had
dogs, IR, the works. He was inside their perimeter (about 250m radius from the
bank). He was also up a tree. Made me think of trying to find dedicated,
trained snipers. Hmmm. Or, this could reflect more on the police than the
suspect. Oh, well.
> You wrote:
> IR, the works. He was inside their perimeter (about 250m radius from
Probably a panic call that inadvertantly was best call he could have made.
People almost never look above about head height.
The reason for the multicolored lights on police cars is that it is the lights
identify which police force they are!! In the dark (which happens to occur
half the time) you can tell who you are following. State police have one
setup, county another, and adjacent towns have different combinations of
white, blue and red lights. Soooo when you are in a megopolis like you have
around Chicago, you really see bizare combos!!
Paint the MP's any color combo you want but change the combo if you are mixing
forces ( Marines, Army, Militia, etc.)
Tom Hughes
> On Thu, 30 Apr 1998 00:27:26 EDT NVDoyle <NVDoyle@aol.com> writes:
On Thu, 30 Apr 1998 09:51:27 -0500 (CDT) jatkins6@ix.netcom.com (John
> Atkinson) writes:
Why all this talk of civilians? Otto Skorzeny had tanks on his attempted waltz
behind Ami lines!!!!! Besides paratroopers have an effect all out of
proportion to their numbers, look at Normandy!! I would say MP's would
be rather well armed!!! MP's control the area immeadiately behind the
front lines, if something happens, they are the front line!!!
> Something else to think about for SG2: one of they suspects from a
Actually, if you think about it, a Sniper in that position is making a
nuisance of himself and the suspect is trying his best not to. Most snipers I
suspect take a shot then move to a new location and sit still for a while so
perhaps it is relevant. They did eventually get they guy, though, didn't they?
If they did get him I wonder if he was as stupid as the burglar here in MA
that was chased by 30 Staties and a dog. When he was finally surrounded (about
10 cops in a ring around him) he decided that now was a good time to get into
a fist fight with one of the policemen. The dog handler kept saying "Cease or
I'll release the dog..." (the dog was snarling and snapping at this point)
Well three attempts at that and the idiot was still fighting so they released
the dog which immediately bit him on the ass. He then decided that now was a
good time to surrender and raised his arms which the dog took as a hostile
gesture and BIT HIM THROUGH THE ELBOW.
I hear snipers get similar treatment when they are caught as well.
--Pete
> You wrote:
> Why all this talk of civilians? Otto Skorzeny had tanks on his
How many!!!!!!!s do we need? Civillians are because most!!! Police!!!
Aren't!!! In!!!! Combat!!!! Zones!!!! MPs would likely, like modern MPs, not
use specially designed vehicles, but the standard light utility vehicle of
their army. For instance the US Army's MPs drive
Hummers with M-60s, M-2s, or Mk 19s on the roof. But a mini for a
specific 'Police' Van would likely be for a civil police force. Or at
least that's what _I'm_ painting _mine_ as!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I do have to paint my police vans up as standard black & whites -
That way, I'll know what they are, and the FT background is not so far out as
to have drifted away from such things. As far as MPs are concerned, by brother
is an MP over in MD (Ft. Meade), and, honestly, if they run into paratroops
or, god forbid, tanks, they're pretty much screwed. They might make a good
showing, but they are not trained or equipped as infantry. The purpose of a
police grav van would be multifold: A big van
(SC2-3)
could carry a lot of stuff (equipment, prisoners, other cops, etc.), which
would be necessary on frontier planets, as police might have to be very
self-
sufficient. Also, grav is the way to go when you have little or no roads
(Traveller-style grav, granted).
I can't remember who asked, but about the bank robber hiding in the tree
- shot himself dead. Our sterling local commentary: "We heard a shot
ring out
about an hour & twenty minutes ago - he hasn't moved much since. We
think he may be dead. We'll stay live until we get more information..." Of
course, the more interseting video, where another bank robber & the police
shot it out in the woods (Final score: Police 1, Robber 0). Ah, well.
> You wrote:
> or, god forbid, tanks, they're pretty much screwed. They might make a
A lot depends on the unit. A divisional MP company is better equipped and
trained for combat than, say, an MP company assigned to a stateside REMF base,
such as Meade. The latter might not be a lot better than your standard civvie
cops. No heavier equipment, and not much specific combat training since Basic.
> sufficient. Also, grav is the way to go when you have little or no
Not quite Traveller-style grav, since the FT universe has indeed given
Mr.Newton the boot and thrown out that law about equal and opposite
reactions--IOW Reactionless Drives. The only _good_ Traveller was the
one where such stuff was non-Canon. *Flees before MT&CT dinosaurs, or
God Forbid, T4-loosers, stone me*
> - shot himself dead. Our sterling local commentary: "We heard a shot
In the US, ever since Mr.Hoover made it the FBI's business to track down bank
robbers, only the idiots have made it a profession. Such as the genius who
wrote his note demanding money on his own deposit slip.
. .
> J. Atkinson writes:
Sorry, I was referring to the 'Thruster Plate" style Trav. Seems closest to
FT. But I do sense a fellow TNE enthusiast - or am I misinterpreting?
It was the 'thinking being's SFRPG'.
Anyway, I have played DS2 with both traditional grav (LiteGrav - a
really good hover) and TravGrav (reactionless flight & hover). LiteGrav is a
marginal increase; TravGrav is a exponential change. Try it and see why
TravGrav is the Wave of the Future!
Actually, in an note of some interest, my bro's instructor in MOUT during AIT
(Military Operations in Urban Terrain, Advanced Individual Training) to be an
MP was taught by a Russian who had immigrated here, after serving in the
glorious Red Army - Afghanisty, he was. Scared the living crap out of
the
kids, apparently, with tales of Kabul and various small-town battles.
...
> waltz behind Ami lines!!!!! Besides paratroopers have an effect all
You're right. Man for man they are better equiped than the infantry.
> You wrote:
> Sorry, I was referring to the 'Thruster Plate" style Trav. Seems
Something like that...:) Best RPG I've ever played. When is GZG coming out
with one? We've got the personal combat rules already in the Stargrunt...