Point system misunderstanding...

ok guys, hang on a second. We all agree on a few things here:

1: Stargrunt is a good game 2: 40k has a shitty point system

some people want to give stargrunt a point system, which seems to have caused
others to think that it will get 40k's point system, which is mathematically
wrong.

40k's system is a bad one. a weapons value has nothing to do with it's
accuracy, which is logically bad. A weapon is worth different amounts to
different races, which makes for an uneven system.

I'd suggest taking a step back. not all point systems are logically and
mathematically rediculous. I've always held the theory that GW makes the
numbers up off the top of their heads, and it seems to hold to reality pretty
well.

Games with decent point systems are out there. a well written point system is
never gospel, but is a suggestion. Just like when you tell a gamer "a Nue
Suabian Powered Infantry section is about equal to an Old Suabian armored
column when they're both in rough terrain", a good point system is a
suggestion. obviously, the two above forces are not totally equal, but the
suggestion is valid nonetheless.

and now that I've said that dreaded word "equal", let me explain. two equal
forces do not have to be equal power, points, or size. give me a single squad,
give him an entire army, just make sure I've got cover and a mission that
doesn't require me to try and kill everyone in his army (like, carry this
package, kill the general, eliminate heavy weapon troopers #3,4,and 5). as
long as the game is winnable by either side, the forces are "equal" in my
mind.

I'd suggest taking a look at Legions of Steel. The point system is not
perfect, it has flaws. what it IS, however, is a good round number that
represents to a good degree the "power" of the unit. with playing time you
start to see where it does not reflect the biases of the units (frex, my
Stormtroopers do very well in very tight terrain and become worth more
"points") and compensate for that. You get a feel for the units, but that
doesn't completely invalidate the point system

remember, point system does not equal 40k. it equals Legions of Steel
;-)

> At 03:12 PM 5/28/97 -0700, you wrote:
This may seem simple Brian, but exactly how much better is a veteran powered
armor trooper against a green reserve infantry?   What if the leadership
levels change? I don't see how it can be done...I will post a scenerio and
background I've written within 24 hrs. You guys try it out. No points will be
involved. I shall return!!

> This may seem simple Brian,

I never said it was simple. in fact, a decent point system is damn
complicated. a perfect one is impossible!

> but exactly how much better is a veteran powered

I have absolutly no idea, which is why a point system is a good thing, to give
a basic (note: basic, loose, imprecise) idea to a newbie gamer

> What if the leadership

technically, depending on what leadership is used for (don't play SGII) if a
figure becomes half as likely to activate (I'm guessing at leadership
effects here) it is worth half as much point-wise. if it makes the
figures kill what they are shooting at half as often, it makes their weapons
worth half as many points. it should follow logic in some manner...

> I don't see how it can be done...I will post a scenerio and

I never said points were to be used as the bible. I hardly every use points
when designing scenarios except in a very quick and loose way to get the first
hack at the forces (ie, take my attacking force, design a
defender worth about 1/2 as much, then tweak, then test, then tweak,
etc...). the last few scenarios I wrote for Legions of steel I never even
looked at the point values, nor did I care. But until recently, I had not
played sufficently to do that.

it is more then possible to come up with a scenario based on your knowledge of
the power of the units involved. all a point system is is a method to try
(loosly, generally, imprecisly) and put such a vague notion as a unit's
"power" into something visible and writeable. To take it for more then that
(or to take it as an attempt at something more then that) is bad, as it can
never be more then that.

however, bad ones (like GW) are not even that...