Owen's Close Assault

2 posts ยท Jul 9 1999 to Jul 9 1999

From: Thomas Barclay <Thomas.Barclay@s...>

Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 14:16:48 -0400

Subject: Owen's Close Assault

> Owen wrote:

Currently Close Assaults so strongly favour the defender that in only vary
rare games nowadays do we see any close assaults actually occur except with PA
units.

** You think this is unreal? Other than silly fake army sims, there are few
situations in which the attacker in modern warfare is in a good position.
Charges with bayonets fixed are a good way to die. Heck, even with paintballs
as your ammo and crappy accuracy low rate paintguns, a short 20 yard charge
against an opponent is brutally dangerous. Add accurate weapons, support
weapons, high rate of fire, and defensive grenades.... OUCH.

This tends to see games often bogging down in shooting competitions with both
sides hoping to pick off a couple of casualties here and there, cause a CL
Check and hope the 'defender' eventually runs away out of lack of interest!?.

** Is broken from repeated hits you mean.

The other ludicrous thing we see is one lone Elite or Veteran trooper hurtling
into the fray against a squad of 8 Regulars and if he rolls a half decent die
the Regs CAN'T beat him!

** I'll take the contrary point. An elite can roll a low number VERY easily
also, and get creamed. I'd agree with you if the elite was rolling 3d4 or
something instead of 1d12. The elite has a slightly higher average roll than a
regular (6.5 vs. 4.5) and can actually thump the crap out of his opposition if
he rolls good (which may be unreal) but it is fast.

** Two possible solutions without breaking everything are:

1. Count odds and modify dice. If the attacker has 2:1 advantage (remember PA
is double for such calcs), then upshift the attackers dice (all of them) by
one level. If 3:1, upshift two levels, etc. This is an open shift. So, 8:1
regs vs. an elite would be d12 for all of the attackers and d4 for the
defender. He'd probably lose. He'd have a
reasonable chance at 2:1, a so-so chance at 3:1, and once odds got to
4:1 or better, he'd start to be hurtin'.

2. Make the elite roll a different die versus each opponent. So in
your 8-1 scenario, the attacker rolls 8d8, the defender rolls 8d12. He
is likely to win more than half, but he is unlikely (by averaging effects) to
roll all 8 wins.

And lastly, if a defender fails his CL Check and is forced to withdraw, he can
then, if he hasn't activated this turn, turn around and give teh attacker who
occupied his position a god awful burst of fire at close range.

** How about this: If you retreat from a close combat, you are
"disorganized" and must re-org before you can act to do anything but
flee.

What I propose here is a mod that I hope will encourage bold game play for
attackers. Remebering that the Close Assault is not just representing the hand
to hand aspect but also REALLY close small arms fire, throwing helmets and
spitting etc.

** And defence represents a hail of short range full auto fire, defensive
grenades, recieving charges with fixed bayonets, etc. too.

4.    Defender ALWAYS has a chance at Defensive Fire: Defender must
pass a Reaction Test as normal Rules with TL = to current Suppressions. If he
passes he may fire normal full squad fire as available counting range as teh
mid point of the start position of Attacker. Range die is modified by 1 Range
Band for each Suppression currently held.

** I ran into a situation at a con in a Mark Kochte scenario that was
nasty. Squad in woods. PA attacking - they race into the woods. I
don't test to receive charge as I don't know it is coming (No LoS). Don't make
it to my squad on the first move but I can't fire since I don't have LoS. They
then move in, appear about 10m away in the woods (where'd they come from?) and
they then kick the crap out of my squad. Point: There are instances where the
defender can't fire and might not even know he was being assaulted till too
late.

** Second point: If you used Jon T's proposed Snap/Reaction fire, when
his squad moved up close to take your squad under the guns, you'd try to
reaction fire and kill him before he can move up and gun you. Add overwatch
and advancing into CC is brutal. Which (IMHO) it should be. Most CC I've read
about or seen seems to be the product of enclosed terrain such as mountains,
hills, thick forest, urban, etc. where forces can actually close in cover to a
productive CC situation. Doing this in the open is DEATH. Modern squads have
so much FP that closing with them in that sense SHOULD likely kill you. (Or
offer a good chance of same).

OK, what we see is firstly the players are encouraged to act boldly and 'get
stuck in'.

** Side note: If I'd wanted a lot of Close Assault, I'd play 40K.;) **
Seriously, close assault happen, but they have a lot to do with using terrain
to close, or good luck or big brass 'nads. Closing across the open.... good
way to die as the MILES gear and plenty of wars have shown.

However the attacker should first suppress his target, the more suppressions
the better.

** This is true in conventional close assault.

The Defender still has an advantage in that he has a chance to put some fire
into the attacker as he's closing.

** If not supressed?

Any comments gratefully received......

** Just my 0.02. I'm far more burned by the lack of cumulative morale
modifiers for casualties than any CC weakness. (That is to say, if my squad of
ten is whittled down a guy at a time, I can have lost 40% of my squad without
any morale issues.

:)

From: ScottSaylo@a...

Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 14:35:35 EDT

Subject: Re: Owen's Close Assault

In a message dated 7/9/99 1:18:30 PM EST, Thomas.Barclay@sofkin.ca
writes:

<<
What I propose here is a mod that I hope will encourage bold game play
 for
attackers. Remebering that the Close Assault is not just representing
 the
hand to hand aspect but also REALLY close small arms fire, throwing
 helmets
and spitting etc.
> [quoted text omitted]

Historically most bayonet and saber wounds were to the BACK of the victims,
meaning they had fled from the THREAT rather than the action. Close Assaults
overwhelm the morale of the defender OR the defnder shoots the defecant out
of the attacker - there are rarely any alternative outcomes.