MINOR SPOILER ALERT: If you have not seen it, this discusses briefly a couple
of things that happen.
Brian,
I saw WWS, and then within an hour of getting home, an episode (on PBS) of (I
think) Soldier's Story called "The Battle of the Ia Drang Valley" which had
Hal Moore, Crandall, the Sgt. from the detached platoon, etc. and the
reporter. They showed real footage. Interesting points: 1) terrain looked
identical to that in the movie (or very very close), 2) events like the Napalm
strike, the platoon chasing off, Crandall hurling, etc were all apparently
real, 3) They showed the
fight for X-ray but not the ambush that 2/7th
Cav took on the way to Albany following the
fight at X-ray, which was a pretty bad slaughter
for the US (they lost a lot of guys), 4) I was very interested to note that
they had someone storm an anthill, throw grenades, and shoot up the MG team
behind it, but they didn't mention that in the real world, he got the CMH for
his actions! (Must have offended the producer or something... he was on the
documentary).
So, it looks like they actually took what the guys who were there said about
the battle to heart. Good or bad tactics, they appear to be somewhat like what
actually happened.
One of the funny parts was one of the officers (a Captain, the guy who had to
go for the lost platoon) mentioned that he thought he was calm until he issued
an order to fix bayonets and the NCO told him to calm down, that was the FIFTH
time he'd given that order....
Interesting story, worth seeing movie. Especially notable in that it didn't
seem to villify the North Vietnamese.
Tomb.
> Thomas Barclay wrote:
> Interesting story, worth seeing movie. Especially
The author, in the forward to his book, took a similar stance. His attitude
was "They were soldiers just like us."
3B^2
[quoted original message omitted]
That happens during wars as well. During the American Civil War there were
numerous instances of Union and CSA troops trading Northern coffee for
Southern tobacco, making arrangements regarding sentry posts (CSA territory by
night, Union by day; the troops would leave a load of firewood and a pot of
coffee brewing for the next "shift"), and impromptu 'converts' given by
regimental bands on opposite sides of a river. Similar events happened during
lulls on the Western Front during WWI, although this died out towards the end
of 1915.
As far as I have been able to determine these friendly acts happened when the
soldiers on both sides considered the conflict to be a politician's war, not
an ideological sruggle (which would require
indoctrination a la NVA/VC) or a war for survival (Germans vs Russians
in WW1 or WW2). In such conflicts the "soldiers like us" attitudes come out
after the war, possibly long after.
Please be gentle with replies, this is still a rough concept of mine. I'm
still roughing out the terminology.
> K.H.Ranitzsch wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: KH.Ranitzsch@t-online.de (K.H.Ranitzsch)
> That seems to be the stance most soldiers adopt when a war is well and
One of the things that gives me hope for us. War is a terrible thing, and it
does terrible things to the men we ask to fight it for us, but if they can get
through it and still be able to see their enemy as fellow
humans....
3B^2
NOW THAT IS WERD.
NVA roamed the battlefield, rounding up and murdering wounded GIS cutoff from
their buddies during the night.
many, many, many, living witnesses can verify this piece of work.
bought them some payback from those PO's 18-21 year old cav troopers
shortly there after.
NVA and MAINFORCE and YOKEL VC all practiced sanctioned and deliberate
torture, terror, mutilation and murder as a way of achieving their goals.
on soldiers and civilians ARVNS, Viets, GIS, other ALLIES, and non Viet
civilians in country.
made for the dark and vicious cycle of payback is a bitch and "bad" war.
DAWGIE
YES, they were soldiers just like us.
some of them.
others were not at all like us.
and yes both sids had "monsters" fighting in them, from private up to
commissioned officer ranks.
THE ENEMY AS A FELLOW HUMAN COMES MOSTLY AFTER THE WAR,
AND NOT DURING ANY WAR FOUGHT WITH "A NO QUARTER!" ATTITUDE INTRODUCED BY ONE
COMBATANT, THEN PAYED BACK BY THE OTHER.
THE ENEMY was NOT HUMAN as long as he/she/it was capable of being a
threat to life or limb of me or mine.
wounded, or surrendered, and not having participated in any known atrocity,
thy were treated well.
BUT. . . .
the MOST DANGEROUS TIME for any combatant, wounded or unwounded, who tries to
surrender is within 30 minutes of the cease fire.
adrenalin. and anger directed towards the enemy who throws in the towel and
cries "i surrender dear!" after killing or injuring a soldiers buddies, runs
hot and dangerous during this time....
in my war.
and in all wars.
look for it and you will find it there in a combat infantry unit, from sad
sacks to elites. most dangerous with elites!
A flight sim forum just posted an interview with a German fighter pilot that's
related to all this.
WWII: From what I understand, all chivalry and sportsmanship was absent from
the war in Russia; is that correct?
Steinhoff: Absolutely correct. In fighting the Soviets, we fought an
apparatus, not a human being-that was the difference.
http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=us_il2sturmov
ik_gd&id=zvwce
Probably the most "tame" explanation for it. I expect a Wehrmacht officer
would put it in different terms.
> Michael Llaneza wrote:
> That happens during wars as well. During the American Civil War there
> in WW1 or WW2). In such conflicts the "soldiers like us" attitudes
> As far as I have been able to determine these friendly acts happened
I'm
> still roughing out the terminology.
Professional soldiers often have more in common with each other than their own
civilians. In WW1 at Xmas British and German soldiers in France played a
football match in no man's land (they won as usual at football). Whereas in
WWII had the Germans landed in Kent there would have been a bloodbath as we
through everything at them including poison gas. National survival was
at stake and elderly ex-servicemen were told to try and kill a German
soldier with anything that came to hand, shotguns, knives, clubs, before
they were shot. The Germans intended to enslave all British men and use the
women as 'Aryan Breeding Stock (in German racial theory the English were
also master race). With that background it would have been war to the death.
I think you have it right, KH.
J.
Dr PJD Lambshead Head, Nematode Research Group Department of Zoology The
Natural History Museum London SW7 5BD, UK.
Tel +44 (0)20 7942 5032
Fax +44 (0)20 7942 5433