[OT] Tutrtledove's Alternate History of the UC Civil War

From: "Brian Bilderback" <bbilderback@hotmail.com>

> >From: John Sowerby <sowerbyj@fiu.edu>

I recommend this series.

Neither the CSA nor the Union end up as places I'd particularly like to live
in. The Prussian Militarism of the North in particular perverts "manifest
destiny" into something that is deeply disturbing. The treatment of

Remember, this is only my own humble opinion...no flamewars please...thankyou.

I did read "Guns of the South", and "How few remain".

Two things I was not comfortable with...His treatment of a
post-civil-war
Lincoln, and how the USA seems to keep filling it's armys with
ding-dongs, while
the south fills theirs with Pattons...

He makes Lincoln out to be a communist (modern term...they used "socialist"
back then.). My friend tells my that Lincoln once made a speach supporting the
working man. (or something like that -- I have never studied Lincoln's
speachs...) So Mr Turtledove just changes a few words, and presto! Lincoln is
a socialist... I told my friend that you could make Hitler into a saint by
changing a few words of his speachs...

As to the USA's armies...the way he has them losing, the US should disappear
sometime around 1940 or so... It just seems to me (read: In My Humble Opinion)
that from reading real history, the US gains something from each war, mostly
how to better fight the next one. In his books, the US is losing, and losing,
and losing... They should be getting better each time. (ie: more dangerous,
harder to beat, or at least not lose so bad as the last time.)

I must admit I couldn't finish the one book, once I read about Lincoln's
socializm...

One of my hobbies is "real history". (ie: the more you understand about real
history, the better you can construct imaginary ones...)

Remember, this is only my own humble opinion...no flamewars please...thankyou.

> --- Donald Hosford <Hosford.Donald@acd.net> wrote:

> I did read "Guns of the South", and "How few

Unrelated works, do keep in mind. Guns of the South
involved time-travelling South African Nazis.  How Few
Remain involve some orders NOT being used to wrap cigars and not being lost.

> He makes Lincoln out to be a communist (modern

Actually, it's pretty well stated that this is a development. After Lincoln
becomes the world's biggest pariah in US politics he very well could go to a
bit more extreme position than he actually held.

> As to the USA's armies...the way he has them losing,

Heh. Things get different in his World War series. CSA has the same problems.

You have to remember that the US Army really _did_
trip all over it's dick in 1898 and only beat the Spanish because the Spanish
were even worse (and their Navy was a joke). That was the shock needed for the
US Army to actually start preparing to fight a war against other armies rather
than whacking Indians.

> One of my hobbies is "real history". (ie: the more

And Doctor Turtledove has a PhD in "Real History."

(I have snipped my previous comments to keep the message from growing too
much...)

> John Atkinson wrote:

> Unrelated works, do keep in mind. Guns of the South

Oh yes indeedy! I do understand. Both were interesting tho'

> Actually, it's pretty well stated that this is a

Interesting. Thats something I hadn't considered yet...(I learn somthing new
every day!)

> Heh. Things get different in his World War series.

I haven't read that series yet.  Too much other sci-fi to get through.
(not enough time to read!  Blast-it-all!)

> You have to remember that the US Army really _did_

Interesting. One question just occured to me. Would (in the series under
discussion) the extra war or two before WW1speed this process up? ie: how many
slaps in the face would it take to wake 'em up? If they get more slaps early,
would this change the rate of improvement? Or were they "resistant" to those
kinds of changes until 1898?

> And Doctor Turtledove has a PhD in "Real History."

Yes I recognize his PhD status. I will never attain that level. (Sigh)

I am just a humble amature trying to create interesting places like the
writing greats do/did.
Like Turtledove, H. Beam Piper, ect.

I found out by reading Piper's works, and the ones about his works, that he
cramed a huge amount
of real history into each of his stories.  Even the purely Sci-fi ones.
Fastenating!
He seemed to understand the way real peaple think/react, social and
historical effects, ect. So I have been trying to study real history to
improve my imaginary
ones...

> John