[OT] Re: Tired of the stupid comments about SST... you will be.

In message
<Pine.OSF.4.02A.9903072134340.30339-100000@ccins.camosun.bc.ca> Brian
> Burger writes:

Ah, come on. Most people who saw the film never even heard of the
book. Sci-fi geeks like us make up a small proportion of the sci-
fi film audience.

[...]
> > > You'll be surprised at how much

Really? Did you see the Three Musketeers with Charlie Sheen and Tim Curry? Any
Dracula or Frankenstein film? Anything of P.K. Dick? H.P. Lovecraft? etc. etc.
etc. Am I right in recalling a film of 1984 with a *happy* Hollywood ending?

I did like L.A. Confidential, but it was a shame they cut out Walt Disney's
secret psychopathic serial killer illegitamate son from the story.

> All Mr. Verhoven

Non-rhetorical question: what do think Verhoeven's views actually
are? I certainly can't tell from the film. The film may be satirical, but,
unlike the earlier Robocop, or Total Recall, the society being satirised is
shown to work very well; to be stable,
fair, prosperous and capable of self-defence. What more did RAH
say himself?

Verhoeven also, reportedly, thinks Hitler is very misunderstood. He'll never
get any money for the film project. Penury may force
him direct another few huge American sci-fi blockbusters.

> > One presumes that he read numerous treatments and scripts.

...and the kicker is, they each get paid more than everybody on this list
*combined*.

> > The point Verhoeven made time and time again in interviews is that

...is that the book or the film you're describing?...

> > It was the producers who jumped on SST as a vehicle for a giant

Well, we'll have to disagree. It's the only filmable version of the novel that
I can imagine, and a spledid romp. Good looking people, a fated (yet tragic)
romance, lots of nameless goons get
slaughtered in several humungous gore-fests, a few laughs here and
there, CGI that wasn't crap, spaceships. Worked for me.

The romantic shennanigans are the centre of the film's story, providing the
plot's turning points and resolution, so I guess the 90210 jibe is fair...
ish. I don't think 90210 character get their brain's sucked out by insects to
resolve a plot line very often (but then I've never seen 90210, so I could be
wrong).

> > > This is from "The Making of SST" which has an interview w/

Yes. I was laughing at them, not with them.

> Verhoven butchers the politics. Look, I don't agree with most of the

I don't agree. He does present the politics, and it isn't just to say "this
would be bad" or "this would be good". How dull would that be? Satire is a
*serious* way of presenting politics, it just isn't a very *respectful* way of
presenting politics.

> (I'm not sure the politics of the

A-ha. We agree on something, at last. Frankly, you could either
make SST to be laughed with, or laughed *at*.

I also get bragging rights on this point, because loooooong ago on this list,
before the film was out, I proposed a satirical SST as the only way to do it.
Validation, I love it.

> Heinlien seems to have believed most of the politics he put into the

I'm not sure I agree. Whether RAH believed all the BS from SST is one of those
interminable debates. The book is, I think, a
reaction to the looming spectre of push-button, nuclear warfare
from which the hoi-poiloi are completely excluded. This is not a
very democratic prospect. Writing a novel emphasising this doesn't
necessarily mean that you want to disenfranchise honest tax-paying
non-veterans.

> The book would

Art is ambiguous. Satire isn't there to provide answers, but to ask questions,
disrepectfully.

> Enough on this. I've gone on too much, it's now way way OT. I don't

Indeed. We shall have to agree to disagree. I had to be dragged to the cinema
to see it and I am grateful to the dragger.

> Adrian Johnson writes:

No kidding.

> Like the scene when the

Wasn't that a glorious scene? You could have swapped in Hammer Studios
dinosaurs for the bugs, and swapped in spears for the rifles, and "cavemen"
for the troopers. Marvelous. Loved it.

You could have pretty much swapped in spears for the rifles throughout the
whole film, except that spears are much less *cool*
and don't go *dakka-dakka-dakka*. Doing so wouldn't have changed
the politics of the book/film one iota either. Establishing social
position through military service as a concept goes back to the stone age...

...and there sure ain't no such thing as a crew-served spear.

Yeah, yeah, I know, off-topic. Of course, the Internet was created
for only three reasons: to give support for Unix, to discuss Starship Troopers
and to disseminate pornography, so in a sense it
can never truly be off-topic.

> David Brewer wrote:
...Snip...JTL
> ...and there sure ain't no such thing as a crew-served spear.
...Snip...JTL
> David Brewer

Not to be pill, but yes there is!

Bye for now,