FMA said:
This is now the second Princess Bride reference in the past 30 days...
[Tomb] I assume you are referring to a number of threads that were
obviously "To the Pain!"?????
;)
Lead Rot: Could a bath in some solution (perhaps slightly acidic or
basic?) clean/sanitize the figure? If the figure is cleaned, could it
not be painted to prevent a recurrence? Does the rot affect non-lead
white metal? It seems there ought to be some recovery possible.
Someone mentioned (Henrix?) not storing figures cold. How cold is cold?
Air conditioned chilly basement cold? Or freeze-your-ass-off winter ice
cold?
On Mon, 10 Jun 2002 13:24:53 -0400, "Tomb" <tomb@dreammechanics.com>
wrote:
> Lead Rot: Could a bath in some solution (perhaps slightly acidic or
I'm not sure if the lead fixtures the US Navy talk about were painted or not.
I do know that I had some significant lead rot on some Star Frontiers ships. I
carved out the rotted bits (made it look like battle damage), and painted the
figures. I haven't had a problem with them deteriorating further, and that was
back in '97 that I painted them.
I think white metal is less of a problem because there is more tin(?) in the
mix. Pewter (initially zinc and lead) used to have lead as part of the
mixture, but apparently now it uses other metals like copper. Of course, this
is just a little I found out, and possibly wrong! Jon could probably give us
some information on the GZG figure metal mixture, and any experience he's had
with lead rot.
I know the Star Frontiers miniatures were shrink wrapped and stored on foam.
The foam, being oil based, may have some acetic acid in it (just a
guess/possibility, I don't know for sure) and could inadvertently
started the whole rotting process.
> Someone mentioned (Henrix?) not storing figures cold. How cold is cold?
I would think that cold temperatures would slow down the chemical process, not
speed it up. Perhaps someone has stored figures in a basement and assumed lead
rot was from being cold when it was something else entirely. A root cellar,
for instance, may have a higher concentration of CO2, which was part of the
chemical reaction cycle.
Good lord, I'm dredging up some old knowledge... Let that be my disclaimer...
Temperature, as the rest of the real world, in chemistry can be a mixed
blessing or curse as you look at it...
In general, colder (in human turns NOT low Kelvin) means slower reactions.
Slower reactions mean less rot.
Since acids depend on water to work, freezing temperatures and lower should
halt the acid reaction.
However... Since acids can actually increase in strength as water decreases
(to a certain extent then it reverses again) (Diluting an acid makes it less
strong... Molarity and all) and water at 32 degrees F (ok 0 for those into
Celsius) is not uniformly at 32 degrees, you'll have small amounts of water
roaming about, which could strengthen the reaction.
Thus, my recommendation for experiment is to store them cold, but not
freezing, to best slow the process.
CO2 exists darn near everywhere these days... Root celler, or highrise. You're
not likely to stop things by that process without a neutral/noble gas
filled chamber that was vacuum filled via said gases. Even then, you're not
likely to get it all.
To whomever suggested adding a base... This is probably not going to work too
well as a stopping mechanism, nor is it likely to slow the process anyway. The
lead rot process sounds roughly like some other similar metal rot problems
like rust (for example). The outer dust shields the inner process from
effects. Thus your base is not likely to pentrate well. Still, other than
adding water into the mix, it's probably not going to hurt.
Having said all that, YMMV and all that, so don't let me having said this
disuade you if you want to try.
It sounds like the absolute best bet is to dig out the affected part, and
seal.
Air-tight.
Rand.
> I would think that cold temperatures would slow down the chemical
> On 10-Jun-02 at 13:18, Tomb (tomb@dreammechanics.com) wrote:
The museum report mentionned that heat appeared to be an accelerator. The cold
thing was a false lead. (hah, a pun that only works when written.)
You would need something to neutralize the acetic acid. Then you would need
something to remove all traces of lead acetate and lead hydroxide.
Better solution: Don't store mini's in wooden cases, don't use white glue in
your packing cases. Store in open air.
> At 13:17 2002-06-10 -0500, Allan Goodall wrote:
wrote:
> >Someone mentioned (Henrix?) not storing figures cold. How cold is
The process I'm talking about is not chemical, it's physical. Tin has both
a metallic and a non-metallic form. The metallic form is more stable at
higher temperatures, say room temperature and above. The non-metallic is
a gray powder.
Pewter plague is, and has been, a serious problem with stuff made out of
tin (wholly or partially). It can start spontaneously at lower temperatures (I
think it reaches a
maximum at -13C), and is inhibited, even when an item has been affected,
by higher temperatures. At above 13C it does not seem to arise spontaneously.
Pewter today is a lead/zinc alloy, but that is not true historically,
when
it was usually tin/lead, or almost pure tin.
Pewter plague is what a friend's chemical dictionary translates it (swedish
tennpest) into.
This other lead rot I am unfamiliar with, but the article linked by A. Goodall
seems to know what they are talking about.
____
> I wrote:
Tin plague seems to be a more common expression.
____
> On Mon, 10 Jun 2002 13:24:53 -0400, "Tomb" <tomb@dreammechanics.com>
wrote:
> Lead Rot: Could a bath in some solution (perhaps slightly acidic or
in the
> mix. Pewter (initially zinc and lead) used to have lead as part of the
We use C90, which is classed as an "English Pewter" and is mostly tin with a
SMALL percentage of lead and traces of a few other things (antimony, copper
etc IIRC); I've never experienced "rot" problems of any sort with
stuff we cast, but I HAVE seen it a few times on very old, soft-metal
castings from my own collection.
I'll talk to our metal supplier today if I can and try to find out what they
know about the subject of the lead rot, see if I can get you all some
professional technical answers.
Jon (GZG)
> I know the Star Frontiers miniatures were shrink wrapped and stored on