[OT] Potpourri: Responsibility, Paintball, List Seniority

3 posts ยท Mar 15 2002 to Mar 15 2002

From: Thomas Barclay <Thomas.Barclay@s...>

Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:09:27 -0500

Subject: [OT] Potpourri: Responsibility, Paintball, List Seniority

Alan B said:
"Responsible for" implies "involved in" - though not the converse. That
is you may be powerless to alter a situation, but you're still involved. But
you can easily be involved in something without being responsible for it.
Typically, innocent bystanders, people hit by drunken drivers etc.

[Tomb] I think you're talking about causation (by saying responsible
for, you mean "a cause of" or "contributing as a cause of"). Responsibility to
my mind usually means who has to deal with the results. There are many times
I've been responsible for something that I had no hand in creating ("here, you
fix this"). I was "involved" later on in the project, and then made
responsible. Responsibility is (to my thinking) about accountability. You are
responsible for a thing if you can be called to account for a failure or
problem with it or its application. Who is to blame and who is responsible are
two very different questions for me. I think many folks who blame society for
their problems don't assume personal responsibility - they say "but I
had a bad upbringing or bad breaks". This is possibly true, but it says
_nothing_ to responsibility. Responsibility is "who's going to clean
this up? On whose head does a failure fall? Who will deal with the
aftermath?". It doesn't address causation. But that's only my 0.02. As far as
defence projects go, the ones I worked on were of the benign variety (teaching
air navs, etc) rather than the more malign (blowing people up). Although if
one of those air navs gives bad direction and a plane augers in, I have some
very minute degree of association and causation to acknowledge.

Paintball: Paintball is (mostly) an outdoor sport and a bit dangerous as a
direct consequence. OTOH, on a well run field with tight refereeing and
administration (gun checks, using only good new paint, following strict
googling rules, etc), it is a minimally risky prospect and waaaaaaay
fun. Paintballs sting, but if you are wearing more than a T-shirt, they
don't tend to do much actual damage. I usually wore a combat shirt (fall
weight) over a T-shirt and a set of combat pants. And webgear. Most of
the time, I didn't even get much in the way of a welt. (One exception was 16
welts at point blank in the back, but I dug my own hole there.... damn 12
gram.... pagewire fencing.... stupid me....).

List Seniority: I was on the old bolton list and I'm sure I must have joined
in 1996 sometime. I'd have thought early on. I should see if I can find my
original mail archive.... (of course, I doubt I have the mailer to find it).
It has been a long, mostly excellent, run with this list and this wonderful
community and I've made a lot of wonderful friends!

Goose Green:
> From what I understand, the Paras were pinned and the Col. was trying

From: Allan Goodall <agoodall@a...>

Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:35:29 -0600

Subject: Re: [OT] Potpourri: Responsibility, Paintball, List Seniority

On Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:09:27 -0500, "Tomb" <tomb@dreammechanics.com>
wrote:

> I was on the old bolton list and I'm sure I must have joined in 1996

I was on the old Bolton server list as well. I'm not sure if I joined in '95
or '96, I think early '96. Just to throw that in. *G* (Good lord... at least 6
years???)

From: Derek Fulton <derekfulton@b...>

Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 09:34:15 +1100

Subject: Re: [OT] Potpourri: Responsibility, Paintball, List Seniority

> At 01:09 15/03/02 -0500, Tom wrote:

Everyone with a opinion has reasons why Lt. Col Jones did what he did, some
recount the RSM warning Jones against his actions and being ignored. The

reasons for Lt. Col. Jones' behaviour can only really be answered by him

and of course he's dead.

> This was the particular part of

Being at the end of a 8000 nm supply line meant that any loss of equipment
would be felt. But the real problem to British mobility was the loss of the
Atlantic Conveyer and the ten Chinooks on board. After that they had to make
do with the one surviving Chinook (call sign Bravo November).

Cheers