From: Laserlight <laserlight@q...>
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 18:30:46 -0500
Subject: [OT] PanzerGrenadier
by Avalanche Press. Anyone played it? Comments?
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Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 15:44:47 -0800 (PST)
From: John Atkinson <johnmatkinson@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Nobility.... or not....
To: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
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> --- Laserlight <laserlight@quixnet.net> wrote:
> > The SAS got smacked around by Iraqi
And if you think Virginia rednecks can't get that sort of odds, you're being a
bit cheerful. And the SAS will run out of operators before we run out of
rednecks.
John
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!? Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping.
http://shopping.yahoo.com
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Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 16:41:05 -0800
From: Jaime Tiampo <fugu@spikyfishthing.com>
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To: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: Inventions
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Not that this is surprising but I have to disagree with our dear Mr Atkinson.
I've done quite a bit or research and where I maybe forgetting a few things
off the top of my head I can hope to remember some things.
> John Atkinson wrote:
> --- "K.H.Ranitzsch" <KH.Ranitzsch@t-online.de> wrote:
And they figured out that you can use the rediculously small thread for stuff.
I'd have to give them some credit on the manufacturing of silk items.
> 2)Paper and ink I'll give them--although ink was
And don't forget the printing press. 500 years before Europeans and it was
used extensively.
> None of the rest were ever (with the exception of cast
Ok, here's where Mr Atkinson gets techmological developement and common use
mistaken for military agression. First off, the Chinese were never really a
conquesting people. They got so far and stopped for two main reasons. One,
they weren't very good offensively with their military and two, they came to
the realisaton that if they conquered a place, they had to civilise it. That's
a big undertaking, teaching literacy, economics, basic educational and
technological steps. It just wasn't worth the effort.
The chinese used the compass and their navy to expand trade routes via water
all the way to south africa. It just wasn't all that usefull to them. When
you're hundreds of years ahead of the rest of the world there isn't must they
can offer but raw resources.
As for gun powder, the reason europe could use it so fast was that they got
the recipe in its finished state. It took the chinese hundreds of years to get
it there. By the 11th century the chinese had hand grenades, military rockets,
both ground based for anti infantry and seige, and naval for anti shiping.
What happened to really end the chinese lead is the mongols showed up and
sacked the place, ruled it for a bit and interupted social developement.
When people say that if china was so far ahead, why didn't they rule the
planet instead of the europeans, it all boils down to, they had what they
needed and didn't feel that having to civilise the rest of the world was their
job.
Jaime
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From: "David Rodemaker" <dar@horusinc.com>
To: <gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu>
Subject: RE: Inventions
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 19:01:44 -0600
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> What happened to really end the chinese lead is the mongols showed up
That and the fact that most of Southeast Asian culture is all dominated to a
greater or lesser degree by Chinese culture. They also didn't have any real
need to expand past Asia, the resource based was fine for thier needs.
> When people say that if china was so far ahead, why didn't they rule
I don't know about that, I do know that when you look at land mass and
population base controlled the Chinese did an excellent job, and longer than
most anyone else for a long time. (Now and then) Chinese cultural minorities
moved outward from China and became everybody from the Thai to the Hmong, and
there are significant Han Chinese minorities throughout SE Asia who were
huge amounts of the merchant-class damn near everywhere.
That is incidently where defining China gets a bit problematic, are you
talking about just the Han? What about the Bai? Or any of the other
minorities? If you talk about 'China' you might also want to compare it to
something like the Roman Empire or the Holy Roman Empire; lot's of people,
many cultures, many languages...
David
(Just has semester of this from my Anthro Prof. She's a SE Asia
expert...)
;-)
From - Wed Dec 05 17:36:35 2001
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Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 12:02:59 +1100
To: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
From: Derek Fulton <derekfulton@bigpond.com>
Subject: Re: New baby girl and Re[2]: New baby girl
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G'day,
Just stealing Derek's email for a moment...
> Simon wrote:
> than 1!!!
Oops....
To which Flak added:
> If you want one more, that ought to be okay.... but NEVER... EVER let
Oops....
Oh well on the bright side at least we won't get bored...;)
Thanks for thinking of us
Beth
Derek Fulton 12 Balaka st.Rosny, Hobart. Tasmania, 7018. Australia
Phone; (03) 62459123 Mobile; 0438459123 Email; derekfulton@bigpond.com
URL; http://www.users.bigpond.com/derekfulton/
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Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 12:15:31 +1100
To: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
From: Derek Fulton <derekfulton@bigpond.com>
Subject: Re: Inventions
In-Reply-To: <20011204230628.53673.qmail@web12305.mail.yahoo.com>
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G'day John,
> None of the rest were ever (with the exception of cast iron)
exploited.
So long as we completely ignore all the mathematical advances put forward
and exploited by people of non-European nations. The big name
mathematicians you hear about in high school may well be French and German,
but a lot before and since was done by people from elsewhere in the world.
Moreover, just because it didn't survive until today doesn't mean it wasn't
exploited/innovative. That's kinda like sticking to the now dying idea
that Columbus was the first European to land in the Americas.
Cheers
Beth (pretending to be Derek, just to fool you all....)
Derek Fulton 12 Balaka st.Rosny, Hobart. Tasmania, 7018. Australia
Phone; (03) 62459123 Mobile; 0438459123 Email; derekfulton@bigpond.com
URL; http://www.users.bigpond.com/derekfulton/
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Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 20:16:32 -0500
To: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
From: Ryan M Gill <rmgill@mindspring.com>
Subject: SAS vs the N American Redneck/Hunter...
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> At 3:44 PM -0800 12/4/01, John Atkinson wrote:
Figure closer to 1 SAS to 10 Rednecks. Sometimes 1 to 1 in some cases.
And I'll wager a Daimler ferret that those rednecks can far outshoot those
Iraqi troops far and above. Add to that they'll likely have just as good if
not better field craft as the SAS in the woodlands of North America.
Turkey hunters armed with Remington 700's (hell, armed with 12 Gauges) will
likely make SAS operatives cringe when it comes to sneaking around in the
woods looking for them. Consider that they are used to out witting game that
can smell them up wind, hear them over a ridge or spot them wiggling the wrong
finger.
The guys that Bow hunt deer would really get additional points too.
--
--
----------------------------------------------------------------
- Ryan Montieth Gill '01 Honda Insight -
- rmgill@mindspring.com '76 Chevy Monte Carlo -
- ryan.gill@turner.com '72 Honda CB750 -
- www.mindspring.com/~rmgill '60 Daimler FV701H Mk2/3 -
- I speak not for CNN, nor they for me -
----------------------------------------------------------------
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----------------------------------------------------------------
From - Wed Dec 05 17:35:55 2001
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Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 20:28:09 -0500 (EST)
From: Roger Books <books@jumpspace.net>
Subject: [OT] WWII rules?
To: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
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Anyone have suggestions for WWII armour (1/300) rules? We like
the alternating move style of DS, but nobody in my gaming group is experienced
or knowledgable enough to convert historical WWII units to DS units.
Suggestions for Modern would be cool also.
Roger (So many minis...) Books
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From: "Laserlight" <laserlight@quixnet.net>
To: <gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu>
References: <F38HZqYW8BYXifWoqFX0000ca24@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Questions before my rules even arrive, was: Needle fleet
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 20:32:52 -0500
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> I recall that everyone has pointed out how quickly small ships die
The Islamic Fed has some DDs with Beam3's to hang around the fringes and
snipe, and of course there are the stingboats which carry salvo missiles or
whatever we're calling More Thrust Missiles nowadays. Just make sure your
opponent has some more pressing target that he has to shoot at, as these die
very quickly.
Designs on http://home.quixnet.net/~deboe/gzg/if/ifships.htm
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Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 20:52:20 -0500
To: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
From: John Crimmins <johncrim@voicenet.com>
Subject: Re: Needlebeam Fleet (was:RE: [OT] What mailing list is this
again?)
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> At 05:29 PM 12/4/01 +1100, you wrote:
I want to gve the standard systems a try first, but I'll be keeping these in
mind. I want to redo the the Illuminati fleet sometime soon, and the ships are
probably going to include the Illuminati Stealth System too, so
they'll already be non-canon.
Which, I can't help but think, is exactly the way they should be.
Plus, I've got much better class names this time around, too. The Rene
Magritte class cruisers, escorting the Marx Brothers class carriers....
John Crimmins johncrim@voicenet.com
http://www.voicenet.com/~johncrim
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Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 20:53:46 -0500
To: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
From: John Crimmins <johncrim@voicenet.com>
Subject: Re: [OT] What mailing list is this again? moved on...........
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> At 10:25 AM 12/4/01 -0000, you wrote:
Oh, I like. Oversized infantry seems to be perfect for these guys. I wish I
could justify buying Christmas presents for myself.... Ah well, the holidays
will be over soon enough!
Thanks!
John Crimmins johncrim@voicenet.com
http://www.voicenet.com/~johncrim
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Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 21:01:09 -0500
To: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
From: John Crimmins <johncrim@voicenet.com>
Subject: Re: [OT] What mailing list is this again?
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> At 10:15 AM 12/4/01 -0000, you wrote:
I consider the present debate to be pretty much on the same level as watching
the denizens of rec.games.miniatures.warhammer argue about what color official
Ultramine shoelaces should be....
("Blue! And the aglet should be ten times normal size, and painted with the
unit marking and shoe size of the individual soldier! Oh, and they should have
spikes on, too!")
...but marginally less entertaining. I refuse to take my gaming that
seriously, by gum! The more I think about it, the more inclined I am to
add the forces of the Free Station Of Ankh-Morpork to the Tuffleyverse,
too.
But hey, it takes all kinds. I like coconut, too, but what a boring world it
would be if that were the only flavor available.
(This message brought to you be the American Non_Sequiter Society: We
don't make sense, but puppies sure are cute.)
John Crimmins johncrim@voicenet.com
http://www.voicenet.com/~johncrim
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<000c01c17d2c$c32e29a0$74071f3f@pavilion>
Subject: Re: Questions before my rules even arrive, was: Needle fleet
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