[OT] Metalstorm-ish tech from an infantry PoV

3 posts ยท Jan 18 2002 to Jan 18 2002

From: Thomas Barclay <Thomas.Barclay@s...>

Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 20:29:26 -0500

Subject: [OT] Metalstorm-ish tech from an infantry PoV

Okay, as a former weekend warrior, I have a thought or two on a Metalstorm
technology firearm for use by the infantry.

Let us compare the two systems:

Min barrel length for accuracy: same, though there is a concern for accuracy
of metalstorm based on varying propellant charges and varying length of barrel
to be traversed (no score)

Min barrel strength to constrain gases: more for metalstorm because it doesn't
have a breech to contain the explosion, it does so in the barrel. (1 for
conventional arms probably)

ROF: Metalstorm can probably outburst even rotating breech weapons like
the G-11. Whether this is desireable or not in terms of ammo consumption
and efficacy is another matter. (1 for metalstorm)

Ammo weight, slug: Comparable. (no score)

Ammo weight, propellant: Comparable. (no score)

Ammo weight, casing: None for Metalstorm. (1 for metalstorm) Unless we
count caseless weapons like the G-11, then we end up with no score.

Breech: None for Metalstorm. Fairly significant assembly for conventional
arms. (1 for metalstorm)

Battery: None for conventional weapons, some size of battery (enough to be
reliable under field conditions) required. Replacements required. (1 for
conventional weapons). Also, how do batteries operate in very very cold
weather such as Northern Canada? Very badly. I'm going to have to penalize
Metalstorm 1 for having difficulty working in extreme cold
(internal resistance in battery goes up, effective EMF goes down). (-1
metalstorm)

Accuracy: Conventional sighted in weapon, good. Metalstorm? Good accuracy on
2nd and 3rd rounds in burst. Single shot accuracy may be comparable or not
(unknown). Wear on barrel locking assembly may increase MOA and reduce
accuracy levels. But metalstorms advantage in 2nd and subsequent rounds is
eliminated if you use a rotating breech (a
very similar effect is acheived by the G-11 - superior burst RoF means
follow on rounds gone before recoil effects hit). Ability to 'sight in'
metalstorm weapon? Unknown. If you have a site fitted to every barrel, you're
talking something impracticable from both cost of sight system and weight of
carry perspective. So therefore that isn't viable. And as anyone who tries
sniper work knows, sighting in is key. Even for conventional infantry battle
it does matter. With metalstorm, you could use a few rounds out of every
barrel to adjust, but this isn't practical in combat.

Ammo Change: Metalstorm involves decoupling a barrel and bringing a new one
into place and locking. Conventional arm involves changing a magazine. No real
difference. (No score)

Ammo Portability: Barrels that will be a minimum of 20" I would guess,
versus (if we consider the G-11) about the same magazine size. Roughly
the same. If we want to pack 30 rounds into a metalstorm barrel and have
the first one hit, I'd imagine you'd have to have At least a 38-30"
barrel. This has to constrain the explosion of the propellant, so it
will not only be longer but heavier than the magazine for the G-11. And
the G-11 magazine itself can be lightweight polymer, so that extra
weight over and above ammo and propellant is minimal. (No score or maybe even
half a point for conventional). Note, your infantry will still carry about the
same weight in ammo and propellant in either case. And the big ass 30" barrel
would be a pain to carry possibly.

Possiblity of deploying multiple ammo types at once (side by side barrels
loaded with different ammo types): Metalstorm can do this with ease (one
barrel for AP, one for Glaser) though sighting may be a problem. (1 to
metalstorm)

Succeptibility to EMP weapons or immersion: Conventional weapons with well
sealed ammo tend to survive short immersions and EMPs and still be functional.
I doubt the battery system on a metalstorm could say the same. (Perhaps, if
sealed right, it might survive the water, but I doubt it could actually fire
underwater like some guns can, and I think an EMP might cause premature
discharge in the metalstorm or burn out the
battern). (-1 metalstorm)

Detectable signature: A conventional weapon with a flash suppressor, low
velocity rounds, and a noise suppressor has no detectable electronic
signature. A metalstorm probably could be picked up by some sci-fi
energy sensors. (-1 metalstorm)

Overall weapon weight: Both will require propellant (for a mags worth of
ammo), slugs (one magsworth) and a barrel (possibly heavier on metalstorm), a
sighting system (same for both), and any other attachments (stock, etc)
required to make the weapon usable. The conventional weapon will need some
sort of a breech. The metalstorm, OTOH, will need a slightly heavier barrel.
Modern ARs tend to weigh in
in the 5-7.5 pound range. Metalstorm might save you a pound off the
bottom end of that estimate, maybe 1.5 pounds off the top end. Not a bad
thing, but certainly not a vast difference.

Final analysis:

I'd say a modern caseless weapon with a rotating breech made of modern
materials is at least as good an option as metalstorm style weapons. It has
the same or better single shot or short burst characteristics, it probably is
easier to zero for accuracy especially over time (wear and tear), it has
easier to carry magazines that are probably more compact than metalstorm
barrels for the same number of rounds with the same accuracy, it has a lower
EM signature, is not (reasonably) vulnerable to EMP weapons, has better
performance in very wet or very cold conditions, and logistically requires
only magazines, not barrels plus batteries. The extra ROF afforded by a
metalstorm weapon (given human ammo carrying limits) may actually be a
DISadvantage for infantry, and the ability to deploy multiple ammo types is a
benefit of value more to police and a perhaps some SF applications than it is
to standard line soldiery.

The metalstorm looks really good compares to the old FN. It looks far
less impressive when compared to a modern weapon like the G-11 (or some
subsequent successors in design studios today as the metalstorm is). Comparing
apples and oranges (the metalstorm system vs. old style heavy cartridge
weapons with a reciprocating breech) makes it look better than it probably is.

It isn't inviable, I just say its not a panacea and, as a footslogger, I
prefer easy to carry mags (I'm already festooned with too much gear that isn't
easy enough to locate around the body) and to to have a weapon I can zero and
depend on to work (better, even a conventional weapon can freeze!) in very
cold weather and when wet. And the idea of not generating an EMF to attract
sensors in 2183 is mighty appealing too.

So, that's my take.

From: Laserlight <laserlight@q...>

Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 21:43:40 -0500

Subject: Re: [OT] Metalstorm-ish tech from an infantry PoV

> Okay, as a former weekend warrior, I have a thought or two on a

Might make a good assassination weapon, for a while. Get a short
tube--six shots or so--and conceal in whatever is convenient (eg
tennis racket handle). Hand grip can be plastic or wood. Arrive at your
destination, buy a battery, and there you go.

From: Ryan Gill <rmgill@m...>

Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 23:02:16 -0500

Subject: Re: [OT] Metalstorm-ish tech from an infantry PoV

> At 8:29 PM -0500 1/17/02, Tomb wrote:
[snip nice analysis]

> It isn't inviable, I just say its not a panacea and, as a footslogger,

EMP from a coil and a sparkplug are detectable at 8,000 feet line of
sight with Vietnam era sensors. AC-130 Hercules Guns ships were
tracking and hunting NVA Trucks at night on the Ho Chi Minh trail
with the ASD-5 Black Crow.