[OT]Governments was: [FT] UNSC (emotional rant), etc etc etc...

5 posts ยท Mar 16 2001 to Mar 17 2001

From: KH.Ranitzsch@t... (K.H.Ranitzsch)

Date: 16 Mar 2001 10:14 GMT

Subject: Re:[OT]Governments was: [FT] UNSC (emotional rant), etc etc etc...

> Absender: siefertma@wi.rr.com
By what procedure do you suggest to do that if not by some kind of election
process?

> And dispite my participation in the electorial process, I don't

You will be hard put to 'statistically have much of a say' in a nation of
close to 200 million people. Perhaps you should emigrate to Andorra? Or get
your county to declare independence?

> > One could say that by choosing to live in a state that has
society, no matter how wrong they are, or find somewhere else to
> live?

The proper response should be to work to get the rules changed if you don't
like them. Of course if most other people are happy with the way things are,
you may not get far.

> > One could say that the benefits of government are clearly

Adrian didn't say anything for or against capitalism or profit. You are
responding to what you imagine his ideas to be.

A free-market/capitalist economy needs a stable political environment
and the rule of law to work. Look at anarchic places like the Somalia quoted
above, or Albania, or Russia or... Foreign investors shun states with poor
governance with good reason. You have to bribe a lot of people, you need
'security services', and if you cross the wrong people you still may lose
everything (even your life).

> As for anarchism... I'd like to think that most rational people

Now, there are many kinds of 'Rule', from the guaranteed-rights,
rule-of-law, elected-governments of stable democracies, over the
less-stable
emerging democracies in, say, Eastern Europe, over relatively mild
dictatorships such as used to be common in Latin America, to totalitarian
dictatorships such as Nazi Germany, the Soviet Union or North Korea, and

such blood-thirsty caricatures as Idi Amin's Uganda or Khmer Rouge
Cambodia.

All normal people prefer a stable and free state to one of the nastier ones.
And it is our duty to take care that our country stays in the healthy range.

But I think most thinking people prefer a reasonable government to no
government, precisely for the reasons discussed by Adrian.

> However, a sizable number of people on this planet are not so

That's precisely the reason democratic governments with
balance-of-power institutions are designed the way they are. They
channel that
ambition, giving power-hungry people something to strive for, but hedge
them in by giving all people a say in the matter and by distributing the power
among many wolves.

Such rows as the recent troubled US presidential election are a case in point.
You may or may not like the result, but having Gore and Bush fight it out in
the courtrooms is certainly preferable to having Democrats and Republicans
fight it out in the streets with automatic rifles.

Greetings

From: Robert W. Eldridge <bob_eldridge@m...>

Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 06:58:22 -0500

Subject: Re: Re:[OT]Governments was: [FT] UNSC (emotional rant), etc etc etc...

Oh I don't know about that. Maybe they'd wipe each other out, and there would
be an end to two bad things at once<G>.
[quoted original message omitted]

From: KH.Ranitzsch@t... (K.H.Ranitzsch)

Date: 16 Mar 2001 12:47 GMT

Subject: Re: Re:[OT]Governments was: [FT] UNSC (emotional rant), etc etc etc...

> Absender: bob_eldridge@mindspring.com

> Oh I don't know about that. Maybe they'd wipe each other out, and

That may be nice as a daydream, but people living in such places as Somalia or
Afghanistan will tell you it's not going to happen. Either one side will win
or the fighting will go on forever, with more bystanders than warriors killed
or some third party will pick up the pieces, and that third party will be even
worse.

If I have to choose between lawyers and gunslingers, give me lawyers any time.

Greetings

From: Mike J. <pmj6@y...>

Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 11:04:17 -0800 (PST)

Subject: Re: Re:[OT]Governments was: [FT] UNSC (emotional rant), etc etc etc...

> --- KH.Ranitzsch@t-online.de wrote:

I could not agree more.

From: Tony Christney <tchristney@t...>

Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 22:11:07 -0800

Subject: Re: Re:[OT]Governments was: [FT] UNSC (emotional rant), etc etc etc...

> --- KH.Ranitzsch@t-online.de wrote:

I can. I agree more.
;)

This is so far off topic I think that it would be wise to completely drop the
thread, or move it to another forum. When you see a thread's subject prefaced
with [OT] for a week, I think it is bordering on, or has crossed into, abuse.

> =====