[OT] Getting out of 25mm

> -----Original Message-----

Stuart made me think, some of the others I know have started to get
out of 25/28mm scale and are moving to 10/15mm.

Is this a trend overall or just in the Los Angeles area?

If it is overall what are the reasons? Cost, Figure availability?

Just curious what is the hobby trend.

> Stuart made me think, some of the others I know have started to

Well I think it is a growing trend. I'm even getting out of 25mm for role
playing. When we started Deadlands with the wild west setting it was too
expensive to have 25mm for characters on foot and horseback.

15mm wild west range from some where like Peter Pig proved to be ideal. If I
start playing Stargrunt ideally it would be in 15mm.

15mm is so much more detailed these days you don't need big figures.

Hiya,

A while ago someone estimated that the ground scale in StarGrunt can
be approximated as 1/300 (6mm) scale. With 15mm figures, the figure
scale and the ground scale are closer to each other, and I can put enough
figures on the table to make a small battle, and have a very interesting
and good-looking game (I usually use 30 to 70 figures per side in a
game, depending on the scenario).

If you try to use the same amount of 25mm figures, they get crowded
together so much that it looks silly, and you end up playing a medium-
to large-size skirmish game. (I once set up & played a scenario using
6mm figures just to see what it would be like, and the players got bored with
the game because the figures were too small.)

When you play with 15mm figures, the visual impression that they provide
reinforces the idea that the basic unit in the game is a squad of figures,
while 25mm (or larger) figures look more like a group of individuals.

Now skirmish games are interesting games to play, but the StarGrunt rules
handle larger battles well enough that it seems a shame not to have them.

-- Rick Rutherford

[quoted original message omitted]

> Daniel.Casquilho@exchange.corp.disney.com wrote:

> Stuart made me think, some of the others I know have started

Well up here in Victoria BC we all play with 10/15mm. We started that
way. The costs are way lower per unit and it plays better on the table.
25/28mm are too big for the table sizes you end up playing on, they get
clumped together and scales for building start getting whacked. I mean when a
building is 2 range bands long, how realistic is that? And think of some of
the vehicles. If you get a large tank that can be a rangband long, just looks
and feels wierd.

As for figure availability I thinks it's less. I can find more,
interesting stuff in 25/28mm then in 10/15mm for sci fi infantry and
1/72 vehicles are easier to find then HO and 10/15mm stuff. Trying to
find good tanks for 10/15mm is hard. I'd really like to see the GZG
stuff come out in 15mm. I love the look of the Hoplite (hint hint Jon)

Personally I think 25/28mm is better for skirmish level games then for
platoon level ones.

In message <E50E940B390AD31192BB0008C7A4E3F202AB3820@1crp234.corp.disney.com>,
> Daniel.Casquilho@exchange.corp.disney.com writes:

A good question. I always felt that 15mm was getting more play, but that's
certainly from a disadvantaged viewpoint. I have seen manufacturers who sell
25mm say that 25mm sales are increasing, but that's probably biased info at
best and marketing lies at worst. It's hard for most of us to have an idea of
the big picture.

Me, I mostly do 15mm, for the same reasons everybody else listed. I primarily
moved to 15mm just because it made SG2 feel better at that
scale.  I never really realized how cramped 28mm+ figures felt until
I moved to 15mm. Price wasn't really why I started playing 15mm, but by god
it's one of the reasons I stay! I can buy SG2 squads for less than $4.00, and
have an airbourne company (4 9 man squads and 4 VTOLs) for less than $30.00.
They also paint up quicker, allowing you to

Where might one buy 15mm figs for stargrunt in the states?

Pete

> From: Andy Cowell <andy@cowell.org>

> In message <F172yVXFfLFr9PTANgw0000d890@hotmail.com>, "Peter C" writes:

Here is where I've documented my efforts:

> On Tue, 27 Feb 2001, Peter C wrote:

> Where might one buy 15mm figs for stargrunt in the states?

See my webpage at:
http://warbard.iwarp.com/sg2figures.html

There are several US companies & wholesalers; mail order to the UK is also
really easy for those things you can't get in North America.

Brian - yh728@victoria.tc.ca -
- http://warbard.iwarp.com/games.html -

> Pete

> Andy Cowell wrote:

I'd always wanted to do SG2 in 15mm, the only reason I bought 25mm figures
originally was because there were no 15mm ones at that time. The
main reasons are space - as Andy says, 15mm feels less cramped; price -
an SG2 squad costs around the same as 3 25mm figures; and also the fact that I
have a large amount of scratchbuilt 15mm SF scenery I built some years ago (in
the days before marriage and kids, when I actually had some spare time!). The
main problem has always been figure availability, which as far as I'm
concerned Jon has entirely solved with the new 15mm SG2 figures.

On Tue, 27 Feb 2001 09:15:36 -0800
> Daniel.Casquilho@exchange.corp.disney.com writes:

Interesting, Daniel, that you observe this.

As for myself, I am leaving much of the 25/28mm world except for
skirmish
games.  I use 25/28mm stuff in my North American 1500-1775 skirmish
games (Matchlocks on the Warpath rules,) my Starguard Skirmish rules (where I
have 28, 25, 15, 10, 6, and (drafts for) 2mm races,) and am keeping some
25mm Medieval/Dark Ages/First Crusade era figures for skirmishes
(looking
for new rules since I sold Chainmail)  And Dwarf/foes in Fantasy (if 300
dwarves can be called a 'skirmish game') and *maybe some WW2 skirmish
stuff.   In the 'battle' area I am looking for 6/10mm figures to take
the majority of the armies in my collection. I am selling off tons of my
excess 25mm stuff to pay for the change over.

Oh, and I have finally seen more then one 15mm army. At a local con one
gentleman ran (or would have but not enough players showed up so it was
bagged) had a DBA tournament set up and at the following local con I actually
got to see them (in between turns in my playing) maneuver and fight! Other
then accidentally getting 15mm for SF skirmish, this is the first real
appearance of 15mm in my almost forty years of war games! Add
to that a recent mini-campaign in 15mm FPW was run at a local shop (I
got to play in that one) and I have now, seen, evaluated, and played the
scale. All in one year!

I won't be buying any.

semi-related:  Feed back from the 25mm guys who did the FPW was "Too big
a pain to paint" - and the GM moved to boot.

If I am going to try raising interest in a smaller scale I expect it will be
6mm Historical or SF game *or* maybe some 10MM Historical or Fantasy stuff.

But good gaming to all those 15mm guys out there in the world. I'll play if
you supply the armies. I just have no interest in having my own at that scale.

On Wed, 28 Feb 2001 09:23:45 +0000, Tony Francis <tony.francis@kuju.com>
wrote:

> The main problem has always been figure

Vehicles. Vehicles are still sparse for SF in 15mm. I've kitbashed my own out
of Roco minitanks (which the Battleground: World War II crowd suggest is used
by 15mm WW2 players, anyway, even though they are actually HO scale). I've
been unhappy with most of the 15mm SF vehicles I've seen.

In message <atdr9t4h0hi7rg8kegq22sr7lr18nj27cn@4ax.com>, Allan Goodall writes:
> Vehicles. Vehicles are still sparse for SF in 15mm. I've kitbashed my
I've
> been unhappy with most of the 15mm SF vehicles I've seen.

Yeah, but Roco's *look* good. Firstly, most "in scale" stuff in any scale is
usually too small, and secondly, most "in scale" figures are actually larger
than the claimed scale. So, Roco's may be closer to the actual scale than one
might think. Regardless, they look good on the table.

A company called QRF (web page is not currently at hand) in the UK have a
wide range of Modern and Post War 1/100 scale AFVs. I recently acquired
4 M113s and quality is OK. I'm waiting for VABs and BMP3 now!

Owen G

> -----Original Message-----

In message <002201c0a1fc$eb8a16e0$c16d8490@homeii.vic.bigpond.net.au>, "Owen
Gl
> over" writes:

Been planning on getting some of these at some point.
http://website.lineone.net/~qrf/index.html

On Wed, 28 Feb 2001 21:47:53 -0500 Allan Goodall <awg@sympatico.ca>
writes: <snip>
> Vehicles. Vehicles are still sparse for SF in 15mm. I've kitbashed my

Funny,with 6mm for DS2 it's the opposite problem, getting SF infantry figures
(well, it is around here. Now if I was in the UK or maybe even Australia.....)
Thank the Lord, WW2 is available (in sufficient numbers if not goodly
amounts... Looks like it's time for mail order...