Answers to all the different things in one go, erm hopefully
> generally it'd end with the
Go for it, where would we be if we couldn't borrow each others ideas.
> Whilst your pressing ther French couldn't we make
There's also the fact Eire could do the same over Northen Ireland.
Should really
> > start getting all this
It was more a mechanism to distract the us from intefering from all the
shinninagans in europe
> >I've also got to work out how the USA could go
somewhat similar to how I'd thought of doing it, I'd origionally thought of
using taiwan but thought conflict with North korea was more likely, which
would end up sucking in china and japan aswell.
> I think the British army reserves are seperate to the TA, obviously
I'd thought that the reserves are required to attend so much training with the
TA for 3 years after leaving the service?
> --- Jim Morrison <Ajax.Dive@btinternet.com> wrote:
> > Ooh, that would fit nicely into MY non-canon
Thanks very much.
> > Whilst your pressing ther French couldn't we make
That actually fits nicely into my background material,
which is sort of an un-tuffleyverse -- a much more
balkanized earth, including a reorganized North America, as well as a Britain
where Scotland and Wales have seceded (which may account for the new English
Civil War, loss of confidence in the government finally boils over when
parliament bumbles and loses the Scots and Welsh, as well as huge chunks of
the North Sea fields to Scotland), and where Gaelic nationalism has sprouted
into rebellion in Brittany, compounding France's headache at having to fight
off the Crown.
> It was more a mechanism to distract the us from
My Balkanized North America make American intervention far less significant,
if not unlikely.
> > >I've also got to work out how the USA could go
I liked it as well, and may use it in some form, even if not to include the US
in the brouhaha....
I don'tcare how many Mel Gibson/William Wallaces the Scotish clone,their
is no way in hell England would let themhangonto the NorthSea oil fields!!!
Regards,
Matt Tope
[quoted original message omitted]
That is, if the English at that point were able to do anyhting about it. A
combination of international politics, a bumbling parliament, and a few other
factors will, in the story line, hinder the English from preventing a Scottish
takeover of large portions of the fields.
> --- Matt Tope <mptope@omnihybrid.com> wrote:
We out number the scots 9 to 1, and contrary to Hollywood history have pretty
much defeated them any time we wanted. And if it comes to it we English shall
simply threaten to nuke the scotish distilleries. They will soon surrender...
[quoted original message omitted]
> Matt Tope wrote:
I sense a scenario (DSII, SGII, FMA, your choice) in the making here...
;-)
Mk
> On Wed, Oct 01, 2003 at 04:38:23PM +0100, Matt Tope wrote:
Uh-oh. Mr Tope, meet Mr Barclay. I'll just stand over here behind this
nice claymore-proof shield.
Slightly more seriously... the current government is already giving a lot away
to the Scots and Welsh (where more people tend to vote for that party anyway)
at the expense of the English.
What, you mean we can't do this for real?
Regards,
Matt Tope
[quoted original message omitted]
Hey, if Wales and Scotland want to become poorer than Albania thats upto
them...but seriously, Claymores? I'll just break out me trusty Brownbess...and
hope I get the neccesary time to work out how to use the flipping thing before
me head parts company from me shoulders...
Regards,
Matt Tope
[quoted original message omitted]
> --- Matt Tope <mptope@omnihybrid.com> wrote:
Relax, it's just a fictional storyline. Besides, it's no less plausible than
the NAC.
And if
> it comes to it we
If you do that, I guarantee you that a good portion of the world will
intervene on Scotland's behalf.... that's tatamount to threatening to nuke the
Sistine Chapel!
> Matt Tope wrote:
> Hey, if Wales and Scotland want to become poorer than Albania thats
Claymore as in "claymore mine", not as in "big honking sword"...
Regards,
[quoted original message omitted]
> --- Jim Morrison <Ajax.Dive@btinternet.com> wrote:
> Just out of curiosity, how have you reorganised
Some of these countries wouldn't survive if it weren't for a common defense
pact that lasted the first 10 years after the US and Canada disintegrated. If
any of our Canadian listmembers have suggestions for ways to modify the
Canadian content below, please feel free. From West to East:
1. Kingdom of Hawaii -- Hawaii, Midway
2. Bear Flag Republic -- Most of California, Nevada,
part of Arizona
3. Cascadia -- Part of California, All of Oregon,
Washington, Alberta, Most of BC, parts of Idaho, Alaska, Yukon, NW Territories
4. Northern First People's Federation - Most of
Alaska, Yukon, NW Territories, Parts of BC, all of Nunavut.
5. Deseret (Mormon theocracy) -- All of Utah, parts of
Nevada, Arizona, Colorado, Wyoming, Idaho
6. Central First People's Federation - Most of Idaho,
Wyoming, all of Montana, N & S Dakota, Nebraska, parts of Saskatchewan,
Manitoba, & Minnesota
7. Southern First People's Federation -- Most of
Arizona, Oklahoma, New Mexico, & Arkansas
8. Lone Star Republic - All of Texas, parts of
Oklahoma & Arkansas
9. Republic of Upper Canada -- Most of Saskatchewan &
Manitoba, all of Ontario, PEI, & New Brunswick 10. Quebec
11. United States of America -- Most of Minnesota,all
of Wisconsin, Colorado, Kansas, Iowa, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Ohio,
Pennsylvania, West Virginia, New York, New Jersey, Delaware, Rhode Island,
Connecticut, Maine, Massachussetts, Vermont, New Hampshire, parts of Missouri,
Kentucky, Maryland 12. Disputed (meaning I'm leary of going the whole
Confederacy reborn route given the change in political demographics, and have
no idea what to do with these
states) -- parts of Missouri, Kentucky, Maryland,
Florida, Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Virginia, Georgia, North & South
Carolina & Tennessee
13. Atlantic Republic - Florida Panhandle, Puerto
Rico, Cuba, Virgin Islands, Bahamas, Atlantis (Seafloor colony)
14. Celtic Confederation North American holdings -
Nova Scotia, Labrador, Newfoundland
Brian B said:
> 13. Atlantic Republic - Florida Panhandle, Puerto
Do you the Florida Panhandle or the Keys? The Panhandle would probably stick
with the rest of the state and neighboring Georgia and Alabama. The
Keys would fit in with the rest as island-states.
> --- Robert Crawford <crawford@kloognome.com> wrote:
Actually, I scrwewed that one up, I meant the
non-panhandle portion, particularly Miami and the Keys.
Whole lotta tweaking possible; I'll let you know some suggestions for
mid-AM in a bit.
Thanks for very interesting ideas to chew upon...
The_Beast
> Brian B wrote:
I've been [slowly] working on the Hawai`ian Free State (HFS), but it did not
include Midway (too far away). Most of the islands in the South Pacific
(including many of the current U.S. territories elsewhere in the Pacific)
would likely fall under the umbrella of the Oceanic Union. Hawai`i, being far
enough from all groups, remains free and autonomous as the NAC, IJN, and OUDF
all watch each other to make sure none of the other groups gets an upper hand
in the politicking there. Hawai`i itself doesn't feel as it is part of any of
the groups,
but being multi-cultured, used them to play off each other so
it wasn't overrun in its early years of independence (which occurred around
the same time as the Free CalTex formed; because it was so far removed from
the mainland, mainland U.S. paid not very much attention to it, as it was more
focused on the resources that the Free CalTex were taking with them.
Midway I'm not totally sure where they would fall. Perhaps as a military
outpost of the NAC, perhaps as an acquisition of the OUDF or IJN. Not real
sure, but the HFS probably wouldn't have the resources or military might to
hold onto anything that far out. Possibly partway, on some of the smaller
atolls, but probably not as far as Midway itself. I personally still see that
as a NAC military installation, but...
Mk
> --- Doug Evans <devans@nebraska.edu> wrote:
No problem, thanks for the interest. I look forward t the input.
> On 1 Oct 2003 at 16:48, Roger Burton West wrote:
> Uh-oh. Mr Tope, meet Mr Barclay. I'll just stand over here behind this
Tom, nothing, _I_ was actually born in Glasgow! They may have beat us
pretty much "any time" they wanted, but they didn't in 1314. Scotland's
problem has always been Scotland, not England (and the English were only
really a threat to Scotland after they had interbred with the Normans...
*duck*).
> Slightly more seriously... the current government is already giving a
Some would say they weren't getting any more than the deserved. My family is
still rather peeved about the Clearances...
> On 1 Oct 2003 at 12:11, Brian B wrote:
> 12. Disputed (meaning I'm leary of going the whole
I can tell you that Louisiana has as much in common with Arkansas and Texas as
it does with Mississippi and Alabama. I find it hard to believe that northern
Louisiana wouldn't go along with Arkansas and Texas if they were together as
an independent nation. Louisiana would prefer to tag along with Texas than
with Mississippi, and even in this day and age, the Mississippi River would be
a strong incentive for Texas to bring Louisiana into the fold.
> --- Indy <kochte@stsci.edu> wrote:
> I've been [slowly] working on the Hawai`ian Free
I envision a background in which the split-up of the
US is a lot less bloody than a Second Civil Wa (the regional and factional
conflicts come later), and the
initial mutual defense pact, while short-lived, does
provide for some of the states to be assisted in
holding slightly far-flung territories, such as Hawaii
and Midway, until such a point that these territorial
claims are well-established and the smaller countries
capable of holding them on their own. Hawaii in my background holds onto
Midway for political and cultural reasons, I haven't figured out yet how to
make it a viable holding economically or strategically....
> Midway I'm not totally sure where they would fall.
... but as this is a discussion of a NAC-free non-Tuffleyverse.......
Works for me. In fact, it was my first inclination, but I don't know enough
about things back east to be sure.
> --- Allan Goodall <agoodall@hyperbear.com> wrote:
> 12. Disputed (meaning I'm leary of going the whole
Central/western virginia would probably go along with NCarolina.
Northern Virginia would probably do whatever DC wants.
Oh, significant difference... I wondered which you meant.
On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 18:23:34 +0200 Oerjan Ohlson
> <oerjan.ohlson@telia.com> writes:
On Wed, 1 Oct 2003 19:10:45 +0100 "Jim Morrison"
> <Ajax.Dive@btinternet.com> writes:
<snip>
do
> I keep up the old border traditions of fighting evyone and stealing
As an American Mongrel, all I can say is, "Works for me, I'll trade you beads
for the horses..."
> 12. Disputed (meaning I'm leary of going the whole
If you're going to use the english/british royalist aggresion into
europe idea, is it possible that the same might happen over the other side of
the atlantic, an ill fated attempt to regain the 13 colonies?.
That helps, thanks.
--- "laserlight@quixnet.net" <laserlight@quixnet.net>
wrote:
> > 12. Disputed (meaning I'm leary of going the whole
> --- Jim Morrison <Ajax.Dive@btinternet.com> wrote:
> If you're going to use the english/british royalist
Nah, the idea is to have a history in which there's a specific period of time
wherein the former
powers/superpowers are so involved with their own
internal issues that they have little time to interfere with the emerging
world, let alone meddle in one another's affairs. Besides, I'm imagining a
re-invigorated English Crown that is aggressive, but
not stupid. With competition in the isles and a conflict on the mainland,
It'll be disinclined to get itself bogged down in another costly conflict in
the New World. Maybe later on they'lll start looking that way.....
> Brian B wrote:
> --- Indy <kochte@stsci.edu> wrote:
I figured the split of Hawai`i from mainland U.S. would be pretty bloodless
(not totally, but moreso than not). Hawai`i is pretty durn far out there, and
in the overall scheme of things on the mainland here, it is a separate country
unto itself already [present day; I mean, the Weather Channel barely
acknowledges they exist, and CNN rarely if ever reports anything about them,
to say nothing of other "national" agencies; everyone here on the mainland
kinda just ignores Hawai`i for the most part).
If Hawai`i can hold onto Midway against the IJN or OUDF, then I could see them
keeping it for themselves. But I think the IJN and OUDF (whether or not the
NAC exist in your universe as Jon T has them) would quite possibly make a case
(political or militarily) for Midway themselves. OUDF because they will be
grabbing up all the other lonely islands in the Pacific,
IJN because they'll probably want some kind of far-range observation
outpost in the Pacific extending towards the Americas. I think (personally)
Hawai`i would have a difficult time holding onto Midway; it wouldn't have a
lot of the resources to extend themselves too much further beyond the main
grouping of islands.
> > Midway I'm not totally sure where they would fall.
Ah, well, then replace "NAC" with your favorite evil good superpower.
;-)
Mk
Go with the cattle raiding and have a laugh!
Regards,
Matt Tope
[quoted original message omitted]
> Allan Goodall wrote:
> Tom, nothing, _I_ was actually born in Glasgow! They may have beat us
Thats alright as the Normans were Norse settlers in northern France and not
actually French, and Norse is part of the English recipe so no foul there, and
as for 1314, we had to let the Scots win one in order to be good sports!
Regards
In reference to the partitioning of the USA into numerous smaller nations I
feel many of you are overlooking one small but vital geo-political
fact...Ohio.
What do I mean by Ohio? Only that during the summer I started to read up on
the ACW. My overriding impression of the conflict is that Ohioans seems to be
in the forefront of action, both as privates and as officers (I believe both
Grant and Sherman were Ohioans). In fact, it could be suggested that without
Ohio the Union would have been in very dire straits indeed! This leads me to
suspect that in the event of a break up of the US Ohio would rapidly evolve
into an Imperial state and conquer whom ever it wanted whenever it wanted.
For the record, I am not an Ohioan. I have never been to Ohio. It is all an
unfounded rumour that I have been approached by the senator for Ohio or the
Ohioan tourist board...or by any elements of the Ohioan Imperial, sorry, I
mean National, Guard.
Regards,
LOL! Oh, My, oh!
On Thu, 2 Oct 2003 10:04:04 +0100 "Matt Tope" <mptope@omnihybrid.com>
writes:
> In reference to the partitioning of the USA into numerous smaller
> Matt Tope wrote:
This
> leads me to suspect that in the event of a break up of the US Ohio
Being an Ohioan by birth and having spent more than half my life growing up
and living there, I can only admit to bias to the
suggested idea of Matt's. :-) And as the state motto goes,
"Ohio is the heart of it all". ;-)
Mk
Matt Tope said:
> In reference to the partitioning of the USA into numerous smaller
Sadly, Ohio's chance to become the center of a great empire came and went
about 1,000 years ago.
I'll just break out
> me trusty
Matt, The sharp pointy thing goes on the end with the hole in it!
Bye for now,
So it's not an industrial sized toothpick then?
Regards, Matt
[quoted original message omitted]
From: "Dances With Rocks" <kochte@stsci.edu>
> If Hawai`i can hold onto Midway against the IJN or OUDF, then I could
OUDF
> because they will be grabbing up all the other lonely islands in the
Hawai`i
> would have a difficult time holding onto Midway; it wouldn't have a
But Hawai'i could use the standard tactic that the OU uses in space.
Note to Japanese Ambassador "The OU is pressuring us to give up Midway to
them. Will you support us?" Note to OU Ambassador "Japan is pressuring us to
give up Midway to them. Will you support us?" Note to both "Whoever makes the
first move, we'll make sure the other
> --- Dances With Rocks <kochte@stsci.edu> wrote:
> I figured the split of Hawai`i from mainland U.S.
Since the split in general is bloodless in my timeline, that stands to reason.
> Hawai`i is pretty durn
In a setting that's well-balkanized, they become more
strategically important once again and their allies become more eager to help
defend them.
> If Hawai`i can hold onto Midway against the IJN or
They don't exist AT ALL.... The OUDF and IJN SORT OF exist, though under
slightly different government names and with slightly different "Feels" than
in the Tuffleyverse.
Hawai`i
> would have a difficult time holding onto Midway; it
That's why Hawaii doesn't use its OWN resources to
defend it - it's one of their trading cards; it's
officially Hawaiian, but one of the other North American powers is granted use
of it in exchange for defense aide to Hawaii.
> > ... but as this is a discussion of a NAC-free
No superpowers, just a whole lot of minor and major poers. Not sure how
plausible, but eminently fun.....
--- Alan and Carmel Brain <aebrain@webone.com.au>
wrote:
> But Hawai'i could use the standard tactic that the
I like that idea even better than mine, or maybe a combination of the two!
Works even in a different setting.