G'day guys,
Was watching some US Marines (either that or they were sailors in
camo...
which I doubted would be right) bomb check a bus this morning as I was going
to work (US carrier is in town). They went over the thing with a fine tooth
comb, but didn't check where the wheels sit (I've now seen this two days
running). Why? Can't you sit an explosive there?
By the way credit, where credit is due - the US sure know how to beef up
security. Every other time a US sub/carrier/cruiser etc has been in town
its been a party atmosphere. This time I've seen more police in town than I
thought Tasmania had and been through more security sweeps (our lab sits next
to where the sailors come ashore) than the entire summer I worked at
Australia's nuclear reactor site! I also noticed that all the officers aren't
wearing their uniform ashore this time... though to be honest you can still
pick them a mile off.
Cheers
> At 9:24 AM +1000 5/8/02, Beth.Fulton@csiro.au wrote:
Yep. It sounds like they are looking for someone trying to sneak explosives
into a base. Are they not checking the underside with mirrors on sticks?
> By the way credit, where credit is due - the US sure know how to beef
Sadly all that security is mostly window dressing. There were a large number
of navy security exercises by one of the SEAL teams that tested security in
bases. In most of those instances, they managed to board subs, gain access to
ships, capture admirals (one two days in a row), "blow up" ships, and break
through security of navy installations all over the world.
> --- Beth.Fulton@csiro.au wrote:
> to work (US carrier is in town). They went over the
Are you sure? Every time I've pulled guard on a vehicle gate here at Ft. Hood
the standard procedure included running a mirror on a pole under the vehicle,
with an emphasis on the wheel wells.
> Australia's nuclear reactor site! I also noticed
Oh, yeah. Americans are pretty obvious. Fitting in is not one of our strong
points.
Of course, it doesn't help that US military personnel tend to be the
physically fit young males with short haircuts moving in groups (and for Army
and Marines, unconsciously in step with each other). Not your average tourist
or native profile.
Plus we're drunk way before it's reasonable, usually talking loudly (in
obvious Yank accents), and frequently spending too much money on way
overpriced junk. "If it's shiny, we like it. UFOs, Beer Cans, Fishing Lures..
." Jeff Foxworthy was talking about rednecks but there's a good amount of
overlap.
RE: Spotting Sailors
What is a Sailor?
A wolf in Ship's clothing...
Michael Brown
[quoted original message omitted]
In a message dated 5/7/02 9:05:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
mwbrown@sonic.net writes:
> RE: Spotting Sailors
Hey, I represent that remark!! Oh wait, that doesn't sound right. On second
thought, maybe it does. :-)
John Rebori ETN2 (Discharged)
USN 1976 - 1982
ex-USS Pegasus PHM-1
I have 14 female witnesses in 6 ports willing to testify that this is an apt
description of one Rebori, John, ETN2 (discharged)...
> on 02.5.8 10:34 AM, JRebori682@aol.com at JRebori682@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 5/7/02 9:05:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> mwbrown@sonic.net writes:
RE: Spotting Sailors
What is a Sailor?
A wolf in Ship's clothing...
In a message dated 5/7/02 9:45:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> translation@intercomltd.com writes:
> I have 14 female witnesses in 6 ports willing to testify that this is
You might have missed some, but I wont tell
John Rebori ETN2 (Discharged)
USN 1976 - 1982
ex-USS Pegasus PHM-1
Quoting Beth.Fulton@csiro.au:
> G'day guys,
Of course you can.
Mind you, you can still get explosives past that sort of security if you
really want to. Put them in the fuel tank. Put them in the wheels. Fill the
tyres with plastic explosive. Yeah, the ride'll be rough, but on the bright
side at least you know punctures aren't going to be a problem for that trip.
Cover the
underside of the bus with 1/4 inch of plastic explosive, paint sealant
over it -
how many of the marines prodded bits of the bus with bayonets to see if they
feel like putty?.. Fill the side panels, the door panels...
The issue is more whether you can get sophisticated explosives or not. IRA
fertiliser bombs are easy to find if you're looking for them because the take
up a entire van. Open the back doors and all you can see is bomb. Getting
enough plastic explosive to do that sort of damage is harder.
The security is, essentially, illusional. If you're going to cause problems,
you can. It wouldn't take much[1]. They're looking to stop amateur attacks.
[1] Screw getting bombs past base security, sit on top of a building
down the road and snipe AT the base security then get in a fast car. (Or a
slow car that's just like all the other cars). Terrorism is not about causing
harm per se, it's about causing the FEAR of harm. Gunfire that nearly hits
someone is just as effective..
> On Wed, May 08, 2002 at 09:24:33AM +1000, Beth.Fulton@csiro.au wrote:
Maybe they didn't want a repeat of what happened last time?
http://news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,4242976%255E2761,00.html
"PERTH prostitutes were reeling from exhaustion following an influx of United
States sailors stressed from a stint in a war zone, a
well-known madam said today." (2 May)
That was from the John C Stennis, Port Royal and Bridge...
G'day,
> Ryan wrote:
Yep, about 4 guys all at once.
> Sadly all that security is mostly window dressing.
Its enough window dressing to slow my entrance and exit from work site by a
good 5 minutes... I think there were a good many scientists in Tassie in the
last couple of days willing to track old Osama down themselves just so we
could go back to being absent minded in peace;)
John A asked:
> Are you sure? Every time I've pulled guard on a
First day I thought I might have missed it so I made sure I paid attention on
subsequent occasions.
> Of course, it doesn't help...Not your
Hearing "boom boxes" (or whatever they're called over there) blaring Latino
music at a level even my deaf ear find loud is a bit of a give away
too...
that and the fact Tasmania is about 50 years behind in most fashions (OK
exaggeration, but you know what I mean) so the young sailors in flash
sneakers, baggy trousers with underwear showing etc do look a little odd in
context;)
> Plus we're drunk way before it's reasonable
Well they're actually getting less drunk, plus heading out of Hobart into
surrounds more quickly this time. Not sure if that's a directive on their part
or they've been here enough times now to know their way around;)
Katie asked (rhetorically, but when has that ever stopped me...)
> how many of the marines prodded bits of the bus with
Some total of none... mind you I didn't see any bayonets;)
Roger noted:
> "PERTH prostitutes were reeling from exhaustion following an influx of
They fly extra in from Melbourne to cover that problem.... being on a flight
out of Hobart at the time a US ship is leaving can be an interesting
experience;)
Thanks
On Tue, 7 May 2002 17:37:57 -0700 (PDT), John Atkinson
> <johnmatkinson@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Plus we're drunk way before it's reasonable, usually
Okay, I know this is off topic, but I just had to say that I laughed out loud
at this. Living in the South, I've noticed this... *L* (The shiny thing part).
> At 9:39 AM +0100 5/8/02, Roger Burton West wrote:
I guess austrailia was doing her part....
> Beth Fulton wrote:
> Was watching some US Marines (either that or they were sailors in
Could have been Marines - many US capital ships, all carriers AFAIK,
have a MarDet (Marine Detatchment). But there ARE sailors whoe wear Camo or
more
"Army-looking" uniforms, notably EOD, SEALs, and SeaBees.
3B^2
> Ryan Gill wrote:
> Sadly all that security is mostly window dressing. There were a large
I wonder how long ago you mean. I'm familiar with Red Cell's antics, but
Beth's referring to just recently - hopefully she's right and things
HAVE improved.
3B^2
> On 8-May-02 at 10:03, Brian Bilderback (bbilderback@hotmail.com) wrote:
Did they put Marines back as security? Shortly after I got out in '89 they
pulled all Marines off of shipboard and Naval base security.
> At 7:06 AM -0700 5/8/02, Brian Bilderback wrote:
Red Cell got disbanded because too many people in High up places were
> At 10:09 AM -0400 5/8/02, Roger Books wrote:
Gee, what did they think a PO with a drill purpose M14 and an empty magazine
was a more acceptable form of Ship Security?
"Halt....Or I'll...........throw this rifle at you..!"
> Roger Books wrote:
> have a
I could be wrong, but I had a good friend on the Connie in the '90's, and I
could swear I recall him making reference to having MarDets still.
3B^2
> At 10:02 8/05/02 -0400, Ryan wrote:
But will the sailors respect Australia in the morning?;)
Cheers
> At 10:09 AM -0400 5/8/02, Roger Books wrote:
> Gee, what did they think a PO with a drill purpose M14 and an empty
"Halt....Or I'll...........throw this rifle at you..!"
Navy bases around here were using civilian security companies on
contract. I haven't needed to go into a base since 9/11, don't know
what they're doing now.
> At 10:09 8/05/02 -0400, you wrote:
wrote:
> > Beth Fulton wrote:
This time yes, local news footage showed marines walking around the flight
deck, one armed with a M-14 rifle. There's was also a Seahawk Helicopter
flying around the carrier as it sailed up the river, this activity was a
typical when compared to previous visits. As Beth said even though you can't
turn around without bumping into a sailor (or marine) loaded down with booty
from the local shops, this time there is a definite lack of enjoyment. Even
the dedicated protest movement has been rather muted as well.
Cheers
In a message dated 08/05/02 16:00:57 GMT Daylight Time,
> richardkirke@hotmail.com writes:
> Speaking as someone who has had to search cars EVERY day for a few
Those are the good places for blowing up the driver of the car, where
terrorists put their boobytraps. As someone else said those kind of search's
are mostly windowdressing to deter the stupid. If you stop and think for a few
minutes there are hundreds of ways to sneak explosives past a basic search,
and the serious terrorist has probably spent years working out all sorts of
ingenious methods.
> Ryan Gill wrote:
> Red Cell got disbanded because too many people in High up places were
Among other reasons. But that's getting WAY too OT for me right now. LOL
3B^2
> At 9:28 AM -0700 5/8/02, Brian Bilderback wrote:
LOL
And Beth's squidly things aren't? :-P
We can go back to Fighter after-burners (reheat for those of
Commonwealth bent). :-p x2
> On 8-May-02 at 10:21, Ryan Gill (rmgill@mindspring.com) wrote:
I'm not sure about shipboard timing, but the naval base in Norfolk ceased to
have Marine gate guards after a Marine shot and killed a sailor while on gate
guard duty. The sailor grabbed a pistol from one of the two Marines, ran 15 or
so feet, and turned, pistol still in hand. The other Marine shot and killed
him.
I still don't know why a Marine properly doing his job had them removed from
base security, but then I often don't understand politics.
> At 2:28 PM -0400 5/8/02, Roger Books wrote:
Umm. This sounds like a justification for keeping Marines on guard duty. If
you grabbed a pistol from a cop, ran 15 feet and turned while holding the
pistol most cops I know would fire too. As a person who carries a gun
normally, I'd do the same thing...
> I still don't know why a Marine properly doing his job had them
Stupud liberal politics? (not that all liberal politics are stupid, this one
appears to be so...)
> Ryan M Gill wrote:
> Among other reasons. But that's getting WAY too OT for me right now.
LOL
> And Beth's squidly things aren't? :-P
Beth's Ot'ness is Beth's problem, I'm just not going to lead us down the
primrose path myself (Lord knows I'll probably end up following anyway.
LOL).
> We can go back to Fighter after-burners (reheat for those of
For use as Squidly Thing Rotisseries? I'm all for them! ;-)
3B^2
> Roger Books wrote:
> I'm not sure about shipboard timing,
May have been a local base thing. All through the 90's I lived in San Diego,
had many friends in the USN, gave many rides back to carious Naval Stations
here (Miramar, Naval Station San Diego, NAS North Island), and usually
encountered Marine sentries.
> I still don't know why a Marine properly doing his job had them
Sounds like the reply I had planned for your account of the incident.
3B^2
> At 2:28 PM -0400 5/8/02, Roger Books wrote:
hmm... I don't remember that (which is not an indication of anything) but I do
remember a fuss in the local paper about civilian gate guards
and cost savings. I moved to Norfolk/Va Beach in 86
What make you think they respect her now?:)
Michael Brown
[quoted original message omitted]
> --- Allan Goodall <agoodall@att.net> wrote:
"There is a reason bass boats have glitter finishes. You will never see a
yacht with a glitter finish."
Quoting Ryan M Gill <rmgill@mindspring.com>:
> At 2:28 PM -0400 5/8/02, Roger Books wrote:
It's not liberal politics, it's normal regular politics.
Something bad happened, something must be broken. Therefore something must be
changed (not necessarily the broken thing). Therefore something is changed so
someone looks like they reacted.
It doesn't matter that the bad thing having happened was the result of a
correct procedure or not, or whether the change improves or degrades the
procedure... it's the having done /something/ that's the important
thing. Now the next time something goes wrong, that someone gets to at least
plead that
they tried to fix it - if they'd done nothing, they'd be open to the
accusation of ignoring lessons...
It's like ministers laying down their careers for their prime minister.
No-one
sane actually expects that, for example, a department will suddenly NOT do
stupid things when they change the minister, but there's always the defence
then that "things were changed".
From: "Ryan Gill" <rmgill@mindspring.com>
> I guess austrailia was doing her part....
Not Australia, just some Australians. And not her part, but other people's
parts.
On that note, I suggest we terminate this thread before it descends into
questionable taste.
> On Thu, May 09, 2002 at 08:53:48AM +0100, Katie Lauren Lucas wrote:
One traditional way of expressing this in British politics is: Something must
be done. This is something. Therefore this must be done.
> At 8:40 PM -0700 5/8/02, John Atkinson wrote:
> Alan Brain wrote:
> On that note, I suggest we terminate this thread before
Too late. But I agree, we CAN at least minimize the damage.
3B^2
> Roger Burton West wrote:
> One traditional way of expressing this in British politics is:
Something
> must be done. This is something. Therefore this must be done.
If British politics were the only place this was expressed, the world would be
a better place. Sadly, stupid politicians (and the occasional brilliant one)
is a universal.
3B^2