From: Denny Graver <den_den_den@t...>
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 17:55:58 -0000
Subject: OT: Alien Legion/X-Men images saught
Anyone on list who used to collect these in the 80's - Alien
Legion,
early issues, X-Men (Vs the hellfire club).
Why am I looking?
I have the urge to try my hand at scuplting some 15mm stuff, specifically, the
Legions arch enemies (horrible,nasty multi limbed types IIRC), and The
Hellfire Club mercenaries in veru cool powered armour. Reply off list to
Neomatrix@btinternet.com
This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received
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specifically stated.
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From: "Oerjan Ohlson" <oerjan.ohlson@telia.com>
To: <gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: New Conversion of Babylon 5 for FT
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 19:16:21 +0100
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> Peter Mancini wrote:
> It's been done at least 4 times before, but in each case prior to FB1
Um, well... A quick web search gives the following more or less complete B5
conversions for FTFB (in addition to upwards of a dozen
different pre-FB FT2 adaptions):
Samuel Penn's version:
http://www.bifrost.demon.co.uk/games/ft/b5/index.html
Andrew Watkins's B5W/FTFB crossbreed:
http://www.gpa63.dial.pipex.com/wargames/babylon5/babylon5rules2.htm
Richard Bax's version (only SSDs with appropriate special rules on at the
moment, design rules pending update):
http://bax.nobigdeal.net/tbp/index.htm
Some comments on your own version; quotes are from your web page. (Possibly a
rude question, but... you haven't actually *used* any of these in battle, have
you?)
> New Rule: Armor Blocks
It doesn't sit very well in *any* universe I'm aware of, but it's a lot more
interesting from the game perspective than the WW1 naval style where a large
ship with enough armour is literally invulnerable to the
best efforts of small ships :-/
> Preface: Armor Blocks represent armor facings placed on the outer
Certain armour materials should be pretty good at stopping neutrons,
though :-/
> They are useless against Pulse "Torpedoes" (misnomer since it is
I assume that you mean "it is really an EM lance in your B5 background"?
> Shadow Horrifying Beam weapons consider armor to be
You're a brave man who decide on the system's cost before you've
decided exactly what it does :-/ If it only absorbs one point per turn
it may be worth as little as 2 pts per box; if it absorbs one point per enemy
ship firing it is worth considerably more (particularly for larger ships).
> 2. During the combat phase, damage will come from >ships/mines/PDSs in
[snip]
> *Question: Should this be for ALL damage dealt or per weapon or per
Counter-question: Are you talking about all damage dealt *by each ship*
(or by each class of weapon on each individual ship), or do you keep track of
how much damage each ship has taken and then apply all of it (less the armour
value of that side) at the end of the combat phase, or <shudder> keep track of
how much damage the ship has taken from each type of weapon during the the
turn, deduct the armour value from each of these totals and then inflict it on
the ship?
> New Rule: Meson Beams (Minbari only)
size 1-4).
"Beams" include EFSB's pulse batteries but not EFSB's "Heavy Beams"?
> 2. Range bands are the same. Example: Size 3 Meson Beam gets 3 >dice
Minor point here: What happens if you're *closer* than 1mu?
> 3. They ignore armor.
AFAIK very few of the B5 races use energy screens - the only one I can
think off are the Ipsha, and AOG don't have any models for them yet. I don't
know enough about the Ipsha to tell if they're virtually immune to the Minbari
and Shadow (but not to the Vorlon) beam weapons, though.
> 6. They cost 3x the cost of a similar sized beam weapon.
Interesting weapon, since it effectively inflicts damage on the ship's TMF
rather than on the hull integrity. However...
I can't easily evaluate this weapon without the Mass ratings you're thinking
of, but it seems to have a problem: In order to get the most out of this
weapon, you need to *kill* with it. If you *fail* to kill the target with the
Meson Beam and instead have to finish it off with
normal-damage weapons, you lose almost all of the "bypassing" effect
(only the target's reduced DCP numbers remain), which turns the Meson
Beam into a *very* under-powered beam weapon. Unfortunately the
restriction of max 1 per ship and no larger than size 4 means that you'll very
rarely be able to kill an enemy ship with this weapon,
unless the ship was very small and/or badly damaged already.
With the above Mass and Cost assumption, and evaluating it against normal
armour rather than your one (since it isn't complete yet), it seems that the
Meson Beam is indeed worth 9xMass... IF the Meson Beam delivers the killing
blow, and the target uses at least 40% of its Mass
on damage boxes and 5+% of its Mass for (FB-style) armour.
If OTOH the target is unarmoured (and unscreened), and has a Weak (20%)
weapon - which means that it takes on average 6 Meson dice to destroy 1
crew box, but it only takes 5 *normal* beam dice to reach and destroy
the same crew box - then the Meson Beam is only worth about 1.5xMass -
ie, *half* the cost of normal beams... again assuming that the Meson Beam gets
to inflict the killing blow.
If the target has screens, the value of the Meson Beam drops like a rock.
> New Rule: Neutron Beams (Vorlon only)
Identical to the Meson Beam, except that it ignores screens and costs
5x as much as similar-sized beam weapons. The Meson Beam comments
comments apply to this weapon as well, except for the ones relating to
screens.
> New Rule: Horrifying Beams (Shadow Only)
size 1-4).
> 2. Range bands are the same. Example: Size 3 Horrifying Beam gets >3
Applied to hull boxes, or to hull/crew boxes only? Since you don't
specify hull/crew boxes only I assume all hull boxes below, but it
makes the weapon seem rather weak.
> 4. They do damage as follows: 1-3 crew shits pants, 4 1 damage >point,
The "2" won't do any damage anyway, other than stains on the crews'
underwear :-/
> 6. They cost 8x the cost of a similar sized beam weapon.
Um... is this the weapon which on several occasions took out Narn
G'Quan-class heavy cruisers with a single shot...? That's pretty
impressive with a maximum of 4 dice - sure, the maximum damage is
infinite with all the re-rolls, but the Shadow player in the show
must've had a Teske field cubed to roll that well that consistently (or
else the G'Quans must have no more than maybe 4-5 hull boxes each,
rather than the 44 they have in EFSB)!
Let's take a closer look. Again I assume that the Mass is identical to a
standard weapon of the same class but the cost is 8x higher (ie., 24x Mass).
The beam ignores armour and have a base damage per die of 1
rather than 0.8, but it is *extremely* vulnerable to screens - lvl-1
screen stops 50% of the damage, lvl-2 stops 83% (rather than 21% and
42% of normal beam damage).
Evaluation with the same assumptions as for the Meson Beam gives the following
rough values:
Target has: "Horrible beam" value: No armour, no screen 4xMass 5% armour, no
screen 5xMass
10% armour, no screen 5-6xMass
No armour, lvl-1 screen 2xMass
5% armour, lvl-1 screen 3xMass
10% armour, lvl-1 screen 4xMass
No armour, lvl-2 screen 0 *)
5% armour, lvl-2 screen 0
10% armour, lvl-2 screen 1xMass
*) Actually around -0.5xMass, but I refuse to give the weapon a
negative points value...
IOW, in a B5 setting where (almost) no ships have screens I'd be prepared to
pay as much as 5xMass for it, but definitely not 24xMass.
In a background where screens are commonplace - eg. the GZGverse - I'd
no more than 3xMass for it, and even then only if I can combine it with
some screen-skipping weapons like P-torps or K-guns.
Regards,
Oerjan Ohlson oerjan.ohlson@telia.com
"Life is like a sewer. What you get out of it, depends on what you put into
it."
- Hen3ry
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From: "Oerjan Ohlson" <oerjan.ohlson@telia.com>
To: <gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: Re[FT}FTSR alterations
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 19:32:50 +0100
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> bif smith wrote:
> The almity and great errorchecker wrote <g>
No need to apologize. I'm just clarifying for those who hadn't seen the
current FTSR Acid design yet <g>
> Also, the acid would be a effective close range platform like it`s
It would indeed, and rightly so. The Bugs "historically" used it as
some sort of area-denial unit (even in WP assaults - no sane defender
will deploy close to a WP an Acid might assault through...)
> the archer I would redesign with no energy weapons, but would the
Not very, I'm afraid. The B3-armed SD is right on target for the
Avalanche-class (the one with capital force beams), but FT currently
doesn't have any official weapon like the capital primary beams on the Auger
class.
The long-range Needle beam Noam Izenberg uses on his pirate ships
(posted here last week) comes close, though IIRC he doesn't allow more
than one arc. The Auger needs wide-arc beams since it is only thrust-2.
> I know this may seam irrelivant to FT, but a battlegroup of these is
Yep. Though this sounds like very low odds for the Bugs -
"historically" they should have 2-5 times as many SDNs as their
opponents have ships of all classes ;-) (...no, I don't recommend that
you actually *use* historical odds...)
Later,
Oerjan Ohlson oerjan.ohlson@telia.com
"Life is like a sewer. What you get out of it, depends on what you put into
it."
- Hen3ry
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From: Donald Hosford <Hosford.Donald@acd.net>
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Subject: [FT]Fleet Book 2...
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I finally got my copy of the FB2! (Life was interfering with my
ordering it...)
Now that I can see what the Phalon ships look like...they look like exotic
snails to me...What were you peaple thinking...wait we allready
know that...:-)
Very cool book!