David spake thusly upon matters weighty:
> I guess the counterexample would be the dreadfully lame and
I won't take this up here as this is not the forum. Nor is history
deterministic, or entirely accurately known. But I would just wonder which
side of the Scots border you're writing this from? I'll bet I can guess. Even
folklore comes from somewhere. It's distored (sure, so is most history, even
that written in Kings courts). It's propaganda (same for most history in one
way or another). But it has some basis in fact. And the movie is a recounting
as much of the Folklore surrounding Wallace as the life of the actual man, of
which there is much speculation, but litle 'true' fact, similarly so with his
foes.
Speculating about the past under the guise of 'historical knowledge' has just
about as much likelihood of being right in all particulars as our attempts to
simulate the future, especially when obscured by the myopia of the present.
To bring this back OT, a question for Jon or the list. Do we suspect that the
UN has enough power to curtail most attrocities in the future? Or are the
terrible wars of the future the horrors one would imagine, given a small and
far stretched UN? Can they police the far colonies well enough to stop ethnic
cleansings and the like? Or is the UN just a watchdog for the Sol system and
pretty much whatever awful strife goes on in the colonies is what it is with
no interference from the outside world? This makes a difference to the types
and levels of restrictiveness that would be placed as ROE on the forces of the
various nations. And do some people limit their folk because of fear of the UN
or principle whereas others due to power or disagreement with UN authority
ignore conventions or do not limit their forces ROE? And what about the
Megacorps? Do they (being econo powerhouses) ignore UN ROE? (Reasoning they
can buy off or just ignore any implications because they are so big?)
What say thou, list members? What say thou on the UN, Jon T?
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Thomas Barclay Software Specialist Police Communications Systems Software
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> On 22 Jul 98, at 15:24, Thomas Barclay wrote:
This
> makes a difference to the types and levels of restrictiveness that
I've been thinking about the FT UN myself actually. The figure ranges for SGII
suggests
that UN troopers are some sort of special forces unit - they have beeter
armour and weapons than your standardgrunt by a fair margin. There is also
mention of UN space craft in the flavour text. This implies that the UN is a
standing force, rather than as the UN does today and drags units from it's
member's forces. That being the case, the next question is how *big* in the
UN's military wing? I can't see it being as big a power as the major political
groups. I also can't see it being able to
stand up to any of the major powers on a fleet battle basis - even if
your cruisers are 15% better than your opponents, if he's got 5 dreadnoughts
and you've got 2 ships you're stuffed. So I can't see the UN acting as a
serious law enforcement agency unless they
can call in other nation's forces /as well/.
That's as far as International stuff goes. Inter species I can see *all*
Anti-Kra'Vak task
forces/operations being under UN C&C. Better to have one system that's
specifically
tailored to dealing with their threat than have a hotch-potch every
time. Again though, I would expect they would have to temporarily acquire big
assets from member states. I suppose the UN would still take a mediation role
in inter state affairs, but I can't see it actually being able to pollice
anything more serious than minor colony squabbles.
TTFN
Jon
Jonathan spake thusly upon matters weighty:
> I've been thinking about the FT UN myself actually. The figure ranges
I'd have to agree. They look like they have spiffy kit.
> That being the case, the next question is how *big* in the UN's
Except perhaps by concentration. If the UN is small, has some advanced tech,
then if it restricts its fleet of 2 to policing the
core systems, and your fleet of five is scattered gaurding core + all
your colonies, then locally in the core systems they may have superiority,
plus they probably do have other forces ships rotated through with UN liaisons
aboard. So in the core systems, they'd probably be unchallenged (or not often)
because they have the gumption to back up their policies. They must have been
moderately effective or Earth would be a husk.
> That's as far as International stuff goes. Inter species I can see
How about the UN having a world somewhere (New Geneva?) that is the new
administrative center of the UN. No one but UN citizens and guests allowed.
Maybe the UN soldiers are soldiers recruited from other nations who have
renounced national citizenship for UN citizenship on such a place (for the
greater good of mankind, you become a UN citizen as opposed to a NAC or ESU
citizen) and maybe UN papers let you go a lot of places through agreements and
such. Thus the UN has a small base of operations, a huge beauracracy of
interlinked organizations (aide, policing, intelligence gathering,
humanitarian, human rights, environmental, etc) headquartered here.
I assume judging by the effectiveness of the UN in preventing large scale
devastation in the Solar Wars, etc., that the UN must have excellent intel
gathering arms, more autonomy than the UN today
(hence maybe an independent tax base or at least a more tax-like
funding arrangement), and probably spec ops troops.
I personally am working on a series of linked scenarios rooted around a UN SF
unit executing 'deniable' operations in order to execute UN
anti-proliferation policy within the claimed space of member nations.
I assume this kind of unit and this kind of op goes on to back up UN treaties,
initiatives, and peaceful means of conflict resolution (pressure, embargos,
etc). If the unit is elite, and deniable, it can destroy or gather
intelligence on targets building hideous new weapons or contravening arms
control policies of the UN. It can capture war criminals for trial. It can
protect UN facilities (and
execute 'first-strike' style defensive strikes to protect them). It
can (in general) defend the UNs interests, assets, and policies.
Belonging to such a unit might be a lot like being papal gaurd - a
real honour. Most people wouldn't even know this existed. But such
a capability would help to explain how the UN has 'kept the lid on' without
having an overwhelming military presence. That and of course concentration in
the core systems, and diplomacy (which works a lot of the time), and
cooperation from allies (which helps a lot too).
Tom.
/************************************************
Thomas Barclay Software Specialist Police Communications Systems Software
Kinetics Ltd. 66 Iber Road, Stittsville Ontario, Canada, K2S 1E7
Reception: (613) 831-0888
PBX: (613) 831-2018
My Extension: 4009
Fax: (613) 831-8255
Software Kinetics' Web Page:
http://www.sofkin.ca
SKL Daemons Softball Web Page:
http://fox.nstn.ca/~kaladorn/softhp.htm
**************************************************/