Here's a strange one... The Federal Stats Europa consists of France, Spain &
Italy, and their
clients/colonies. Those 3 nations are heavily Catholic (may be an
understatement). Rome, seat of the Roman Catholic Church, is in Italy. Could
it not be feasible that by this point, the RCC would be rather powerful?
The
NAC is probably heavily Protestant/Episcopal, The ESU is Communist (a
religion
all its own), the NSL is probably a Protestant/Catholic mix, and the
Romanovs are Eastern Orthodox. With all of the politics going on, I can see
the RCC holding great sway in the FSE. The alliance with the ESU was on of
convenience, and was more to balance the NSL than representational of any
political proclivity. What I'm getting to is, couldn't the RCC have colonies
of their own, and even a small fleet by now (manned by Swiss, of course)? FTLs
are cheap, and surplus warships are probably available, especially from the
FSE. I just can't help but like the idea of the Vatican Fleet, puttering
around the stars,
doing missionary-type stuff, and occasionally busting heads. I think it
lends a nice historical flair to the whole setting. And they would be cool to
paint.
> On 2 Jul 98, at 8:11, NVDoyle@aol.com wrote:
> Here's a strange one...
<pedant> The seat of the catholic church is in the Vatican. In terms of
nationality, I think that's a separate state. It's not actually (politically)
*in* italy, evben though it is geographically. There have been periods of
history when the church and the Italian
government haven't got on at all..</pedant>
> Could it not be feasible that by this point, the RCC would be rather
> Communist (a religion all its own), the NSL is probably a
I
> just can't help but like the idea of the Vatican Fleet, puttering
I think you're talking something similar to the United Nations, but with
a social / religous
rather than political mandate? Hy, would this give me an excuse to use my GW
Battle Sisters for StarGrunt? Kickass!
I know of several cyberpunk 'worlds' where the vatican holds considerable
political clout, so it's certainly within the realms. Although, rather than
having a set of mouldy old rejects I think a better case might be a very small
fleet of very fast
light ships - with the
understanding that they can call on bigger help if need be. In SG you could
have very small squads of highly trained troops operating in liason with your
main
force - the
requirements in terms of battle competence for the Swiss Guard are actually
pretty high, to the point where they are facing a bit of a recruiting crisis.
Why does the phrase 'Vatican Commandoes' pop into my head? Is that a game I've
played?
TTFN
Jon
While I don't consider the Vatican Army necessarily a natural, or 'expected'
outcome, it's certainly expected by many people. I think the Ogre Miniatures
book has a Swiss Guard Ogre in garish purple and yellow. Me, I'd expect the
RCC to continue to be influential through OTHER's armies.
As for GW's Sisters of Battle, certainly an entertaining concept, but
Warzone's Brotherhood, Grenadier's Zealots, and a fair number of fantasy
figs would make a Papal force at minimum visually interesting. ;->=
> On 2 Jul 98, at 8:35, Doug_Evans/CSN/UNEBR@UNebMail wrote:
TTFN
Jon
Sorry, got cut off by w*rk distractions...
Was finally going to point out that, to a certain extent, some of the other
nations seem to be a continuation of religious entities. However, for what
seems to me to be a likely, though throughly scary model, check out Shock
Force's Scarlet Brotherhood. Imagine those folks with planet busters...
*shudder*
The_Beast
> On 2 Jul 98, at 9:55, Thomas Barclay wrote:
Hmmm. Fair enough.
> > requirements in terms of battle competence for the Swiss Guard are
I remember vaguely an article in one of the sunday supplements on them a
couple of
months back. Basically, there are two sets of criteria - first you have
to be a practicing
catholic and meet certain physical criteria - height etc. Apparently
they have no problems in that regard. The problem is there are also a set of
tests to do with basic
miltary training - being able to put such a %age of shots in a circle of
a given diameter at a given distance, operate certain forms of weapon to a
satisfactory degree. That's
where they have problems - few of your decently trained soldier wants to
stand around all day wearing daft pyjamas. The article explained that they
take their
'core job' - basically,
they are supposed to be the Pope's bodyguards - very seriously indeed
and thus only want people who are up to that part of the job, as well as the
standing round in pyjamas bit. The point being, don't dismiss the Swiss Guard
just because they wear old fashioned uniforms. The bloke inside it may be an
ex paratrooper, FFL or marine.
In some of the cyberpunk stuff I've mentioned (sorry, can't think of
references) similar
things apply - the best of the Swiss Guard are a covert ops squad for a
more (um) 'pro-
active' catholic church, along with it's ability to call upon some major Euro
army backup if necessary.
TTFN
Jon
Jonathan spake thusly upon matters weighty:
> > just can't help but like the idea of the Vatican Fleet, puttering
I find the idea alarming. I game with far too many Catholics that would just
go to town with this theme....
Seriously (or not so), this reminds me of an add for a PBEM which showed a
large battleship torching a city and the caption read something to the effect
"In 30th Century, Excommunication is a Harsh Punishment."
In SG you could have very
> small squads of highly trained troops operating in liason with your
It might be interesting to see *Papal Gaurd* units appear on the
board.... (Good Motivation - God and the Pope are on their side).
> requirements in terms of battle competence for the Swiss Guard are
I could see a recruiting crisis. But what do you mean 'battle
competence' - so far as I know (which ain't far in this regard), the
Papal Gaurd hasn't been involved in any overt (who knows covert? Remember the
movie Hudson Hawk where the Vatican had its own covert ops branch?) conflict
for a long, long time? What are these requirements you speak of?
Yes, I love it! As if I needed an excuse to get some FSE ships.... The Vatican
Fleet is a great idea.... Hey what about the Swiss Guards Marines for SGII?
> In a message dated 98-07-02 08:56:36 EDT, Jon writes:
<< > Could it not be feasible that by this point, the RCC would be rather
> powerful? The NAC is probably heavily Protestant/Episcopal, The ESU
Actually, I was looking at the NAC in terms of both the Isles and the North
American Continent. I think that with all those populations taken into
account, it would be more heavily Protestant, but I dunno for sure. If the NAC
is supposed to include Mexico as well, I think that my calculations could
be off. Thanks for the info about the Isles - lots I still don't know.
As far as the Vatican Fleet, that the Vatican State(s?) is a separate
political entity makes this a little more feasible, if in a slightly different
nature than I had previously assumed. How about a medium-to-large fleet
of smaller (cruiser or below) fast multipurpose ships, less heavily armed than
line-of-battle units, but still able to take care of themselves.
Purpose:
frontier ministry & assistance (Red Cross-ish), communication,
scientific research (Church as knowledge repository), protection of loyal
frontier worlds; it might be worth it to a smaller colony to close ties to the
Church in order to receive some measure of protection and support. These ships
are something that you would see buzzing around the frontier, but less so in
the Core areas.
I've thrown this idea out because I think that as we (humanity) expand,
religion may become more important to us than we might expect. And it's an
interesting political entity, with a different slant & motives.
As far as the UN, I tend to envision a LARGE fleet of really powerful ships,
with some crack troops available (all Powered Armor & Individual Power
Weapons, IIRC). All of the ships painted a nice bright white, with
robin's-
egg blue insignia. NOT something you want to see on the table in any number.
If it helps, think 15th Century rather than 20th. In the 15th and 16th
centuries, the Vatican State was a force to be reckoned with and had a
particularly effective fleet...
MIke
"Doug_Evans/CSN/UNEBR"@UNebMail.UNeb.EDU
02/07/98 14:35
Please respond to FTGZG-L@bolton.ac.uk
To: FTGZG-L@bolton.ac.uk
Yeah but how do we stat the new "Pope-Mobile in Space"'s bulletproof
glass cube so the Valiant Vac-suited heroes can seehis papacy in all his
radiant glory...
OK,ok....sorry catholics out there...Just had irrepressable image of Camera
pan along royal purple BC hull to this little cubic blister where we see
wizened holy man in robes of state waving to Vac suited yard dogs as it
passes...
Oh well,
Michael Wikan, Game Designer Accolade, Inc.
> -----Original Message-----
On Thursday, July 02, 1998 2:39 PM, Jonathan White
[SMTP:jw4@bolton.ac.uk]
wrote:
> Don't GZG do a Nuns with Guns range?
Yep & spice marines and bunnies with attitude and other VSA (Very Sad Anorak)
non PC models.
All this reminds me of DUNE where you had the Bene Gesserits and in the later
book the scarlet clad Honored Maters (or something) those women were
Pathological in the extreme and good at close in combat and terminateion with
extreme predjudice etc.
> NVDoyle@aol.com wrote:
> Here's a strange one...
BTW where do the Portuguese fit in all this? They have traditionally been
allies with England and against Spain, France etc.
> NVDoyle@aol.com wrote:
> Noah V. Doyle
Noah, It is a sad but true fact that too many uninformed youth will mistake
the 'Cross of Saint George' with the 'Red Cross'. (However, this may give you
the first shot due to the confusion.) The 'Teautonic Cross' will more tan
likely be considered a funny NSL ship.
(I an uncertain the French can be considered mostly Catholic.)
Just a thought,
I be blushing REAL hard on failing to mention those lasses, though, I don't
think GeoHex has them here in the colonies. I'll look at the web site a little
later.
Jon T, I am SO sorry!
The_Beast
"Jonathan White" <jw4@bolton.ac.uk> on 07/02/98 08:39:19 AM
Please respond to FTGZG-L@bolton.ac.uk
To: FTGZG-L@bolton.ac.uk
cc: (bcc: Doug Evans/CSN/UNEBR)
Subject: Re: Odd FT Idea
> On 2 Jul 98, at 8:35, Doug_Evans/CSN/UNEBR@UNebMail wrote:
TTFN
Jon
> You wrote:
> I could see a recruiting crisis. But what do you mean 'battle
The Papal Guard requires it's troops to fulfil traditional military
functions, counter-terrorist functions, bodyguard functions, AND
tourist attraction functions. Getting someone who's good at all three of the
first and the patience to deal with the last is a bit difficult.
> You wrote:
> It is a sad but true fact that too many uninformed youth will
BTW, I put gold Chi-rhos on my Nea Rhomaioi ships, and no one has said
anything yet. For those not familliar, Chi-rho is that X with a P
sticking up out of the middle. Traditional Christian symbol (laubrum) and the
personal emblem of Constantine the Great.
> (I an uncertain the French can be considered mostly Catholic.)
Well, half-and-half Communist and Catholic. It's a confused country.
> You wrote:
> This brings to mind Knights Hospitalar in the future....
John spake thusly upon matters weighty:
> > It is a sad but true fact that too many uninformed youth will
This brings to mind Knights Hospitalar in the future....
> >(I an uncertain the French can be considered mostly Catholic.)
...and half agnostic, and half atheist, and half Solar Temple-ists,
etc..... yep... confused. (Not that Canada is much better off these days....we
can't even really figure out who is and is not part of Canada)
/************************************************
Thomas Barclay Software Specialist Police Communications Systems Software
Kinetics Ltd. 66 Iber Road, Stittsville Ontario, Canada, K2S 1E7
Reception: (613) 831-0888
PBX: (613) 831-2018
My Extension: 4009
Fax: (613) 831-8255
Software Kinetics' Web Page:
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**************************************************/
> John Leary wrote:
> NVDoyle@aol.com wrote:
In which case use the "Cross of Jerusalem" (Square cross with a cross
in each of the 4 quadrents of the cross). As this was the arms of the Crusader
Kingdom of Jerusalem, it's long history as "The Crusader Cross" would tie in
nicely with the Vactican space fleet.
I think that I will do some of my NAC units as "Knights of St.
George". This could be cool. The militant orders return, and in
space....
Why does the phrase 'Vatican Commandoes' pop into my
> > > head? Is that a game I've played?
> TTFN
I can feel the Nuns with guns 25mm figures making a sudden apperance on the
battlefield:)
> >This brings to mind Knights Hospitalar in the future....
"For God and King Richard" or some such drivel.....
> Feh. Just accept the inevitable and apply for statehood. ;) Then
I had planned to sell the Quebec area to the US as a closer-to-home
test range for new technologies in biowarfare and nukes. Either that or use
charges to 'separate' them.
They have a bumper sticker "My Canada Inlcudes Quebec." It is designed to show
that we value Quebec and will bend over a rail and hand them the Vaseline.
(Sorry, I do like the Quebecers but I don't
like the Quebecois which is the brain-dead intelligentsia with this
seperatist agenda). My bumper sticker would read "My Canada includes the Land
Occupied by Quebec." reflecting the original acts delineating who owned what
in North America. The problem with the
anglophone world is we are crappy winners - we don't like to put the
boot to our opponents and hold it on their neck to get them to do what they
should do. Instead we let them incite themselves into a froth and give them
the power to hoof us in the family Jewels.
Tom
/************************************************
Thomas Barclay Software Specialist Police Communications Systems Software
Kinetics Ltd. 66 Iber Road, Stittsville Ontario, Canada, K2S 1E7
Reception: (613) 831-0888
PBX: (613) 831-2018
My Extension: 4009
Fax: (613) 831-8255
Software Kinetics' Web Page:
http://www.sofkin.ca
SKL Daemons Softball Web Page:
http://fox.nstn.ca/~kaladorn/softhp.htm
**************************************************/
> You wrote:
> Also, it would be interesting to see which units have made it to 2300
I'm wondering about the Gurkhas. I mean, Nepal is either A)Part of ESU, or
B)Completely surrounded by same, that entity including both India and China.
Is the ESU gonna be so keen on permitting it's
arch-rivals recruitment drives? Any 2200s Gurkhas will likely be ESU
troops, descendants of the Gurkha batallions in the Indian Army.
> FFL has made it), SAS, SEAL (Sealed Environment, Air, Land), and
Heh. The NAC will also likely include some new units in the grand tradition of
the 29th ID, which was formed out of Maryland and Virginia regiments with
battle honors from the same battles during the American
Civil War--from opposite sides. Our insignia is a side-ways yin-yang,
blue on one side, grey on the other. A division consisting of regiments who
were all at Yorktown? But anyone who thinks they'll reflag the 7th Cavalry and
keep them from singing Gary Owens at the drop of a hat has got another think
coming. Most US troops will have set down their colors as US units and picked
them up again as NAC regiments, if the unification was peaceful. Of course,
renumbering the
divisions will be required. But if the 17/21st Lancers have survived,
then I will nurse some fond hopes for ours. One imagines that some
units will have merged with their opposite numbers--the Jarheads seem
to have done so, and I imagine the SAS types and the Snake-eaters
worked out a division of labor or merged.
> forward to someone making some modern day highlanders with Adv Cbt
"An unrivaled garment for diarreah an' fornicatin'" as the Highland recruiter
said...
> Also, it would be interesting to see which units have made it to 2300
Ahhhh...the Gurkhas. Another unit that I would love to get around to doing
sometime. I read an article recently about using the Gurkhas in a roleplaying
campaign, and it mentioned the following incidents invloving Gurkha soldiers:
"During an earthquake in 1905 a [Gurkha] soldier jumped from an upper story
window as the building collapsed. He then went for help and returned with a
work party to dig survivors from the rubble. After working all day he asked to
go to the hospital; his pelvis had been broken when he leaped from the
building that morning.
"A Gurkha sergeant was once kicked in the head by an iron-shod
mule. He later complained of a headache. The mule went lame.
"In 1890 a Lt. Swinton was killed when he was struck by a bullet that had
ricocheted from his orderly's head. Orderly Gorey Thapa was slightly injured."
Again, if these never happened...they should have.
Mike spake thusly upon matters weighty:
> I think that I will do some of my NAC units as "Knights of St.
As long as it doesn't become the dreaded Giganto Workshop
"Chapters".....
Also, it would be interesting to see which units have made it to 2300
- any thoughts, listies? Specifically, I'm thinking of units with
history like some of the highlander units, the Gurkhas, (we know the FFL has
made it), SAS, SEAL (Sealed Environment, Air, Land), and other elite units
with proud traditions and history. I'm looking forward to someone making some
modern day highlanders with Adv Cbt Rifles, Gauss SAWs, and the best uniform
of all, the Kilt.
He of obvious predjudices, but none of them malicious, Tom.
/************************************************
Thomas Barclay Software Specialist Police Communications Systems Software
Kinetics Ltd. 66 Iber Road, Stittsville Ontario, Canada, K2S 1E7
Reception: (613) 831-0888
PBX: (613) 831-2018
My Extension: 4009
Fax: (613) 831-8255
Software Kinetics' Web Page:
http://www.sofkin.ca
SKL Daemons Softball Web Page:
http://fox.nstn.ca/~kaladorn/softhp.htm
**************************************************/
> As far as the UN, I tend to envision a LARGE fleet of really powerful
I tend to agree with this particular view, except the ships wouldn't
necessarily all be white----some would be black (or a very DARK grey) in
the tradition of the black helicopters, although they would keep the egg blue
insignia....
... Snip ...JTL
> As far as the UN, I tend to envision a LARGE fleet of really powerful
Noah, Just to keep the proper perspective, all the ships in the UN fleet are
on loan from the major powers, and the paint is quite easily removed. (Or;
Another background means the UN 'OWNS' the core worlds and the other fleets
are the remains of the nation states.) Bye for now,
> Cristobal A. Mera wrote:
in
> the tradition of the black helicopters,
Cris,
Get with the game pardner! Just 'Everybody' knows those guys
with the white suits wear black leotards (Sp?) and keep saying 'these
are not the droids we are looking for'. :-)
Bye for now,
> As a side note, I refer to UK citizens as brits, it's easier. Do the
> Yank seems OK to me. Personally, I prefer 'Ami' - sounds more like
Canuk is not offensive, not like calling a Brit a limey. I don`t think anybody
has ever had much reason to think up a perjorative time for Canadians.Then
again we are so damn polite and good natured we probally wouldn`t know when
someone is using the term as an insult.
> John Atkinson wrote:
The SG2 timeline makes some mention of a reformed Gurkha battalion in the
service of the NAC. My guess is that whilst Nepal is under the ESU's control
there are some NAC controlled or NAC allied colony worlds out there with
Nepalese populations which provide the recruiting grounds for these reformed
Gurkha battalions.
Could be interesting if there are also Gurkha battalions in the ESU
forces.....
[quoted original message omitted]
Red with white crosses - are you sure? I thought the cross of St. John
was white on a black background (with swallow tail ends to each arm of the
cross)
Mike
jatkins6@ix.netcom.com (John Atkinson)
02/07/98 19:29
Please respond to FTGZG-L@bolton.ac.uk
To: FTGZG-L@bolton.ac.uk
cc: (bcc: Mike Elliott/UK/BULL)
Subject: Re: Odd FT Idea
> You wrote:
> This brings to mind Knights Hospitalar in the future....
ROFL! Knights of St.John! Red ships with white crosses,
Power-armored troops with Red tabards with same. Spend most of their
time raiding Islamic Federation commerce and starports. I've got a DBR KoSJ
army...
> etc..... yep... confused. (Not that Canada is much better off these
Feh. Just accept the inevitable and apply for statehood.;) Then we'll combine
our forces for a crusade against Quebec.
John "Just Kidding" Atkinson
> Mike Elliott wrote:
> Red with white crosses - are you sure? I thought the cross of St. John
No, that's the Teutonic Knights. St.John used white on red; IIRC the Templars
used red on white.
Later,
> On 2 Jul 98 at 13:41, Jonathan White wrote:
> On 2 Jul 98, at 8:11, NVDoyle@aol.com wrote:
[snip]
> > Could it not be feasible that by this point, the RCC would be rather
Hmm, well, the vastly overwhelming 'religion' in the UK is actualy
atheist/agnostic, but *christened* catholic or protestant. *Most*
Brits don't go to church regularly, and hold no strong religious beliefs.
Church attendance is poor, and falling. Religion is nowhere near as important
an issue here as in other parts of the world, and is of little or no political
influence. (NI apart, which most brits don't see as a religious issue anyway,
no flames please)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Richard Slattery wrote:
> Hmm, well, the vastly overwhelming 'religion' in the UK is actualy
> On 2 Jul 98 at 12:43, John Atkinson wrote:
> You wrote:
Referring to your last point: I don't think the papal guard have to do
ceremonial duties much different to British Guards regiments. i.e. Standing to
attention in ceremonial uniform for long periods, and occasional trooping the
colour, or other such peagantry. No shortage of applicants to guards regiments
here compared to any others. The Vatican guard is an elite, prestigious unit,
and it's a fair amount of kudos to be a member of it.
As a side note, in RL the commanding officer and his wife was recently
murdered in the vatican, apparently by a subordinate officer, who killed
himself. All the circumstances are a bit unclear at the moment, and I only
mentioned it because it was such a suprise to hear that it happened.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
BTW, I checked some numbers on the CIA's World Factbook 1997 (I have no idea
why they would want to fudge these, so I'll put some faith in
them...)
France: 58.6 million Roman Catholic = 90%
Italy: 56.8 million Roman Catholic = 98%
Spain: 39.1 million Roman Catholic = 99%(!)
If history holds (and it seems to in GZG) I don't think that these will change
much in 200 years. I think the RCC will hold some degree of power in the FSE,
IMHO. I really want a Vatican Fleet. So I'm designing one! How much mass
for capital-class Holy Water Sprinklers? How do you baptize someone in
0g?
If the Pope falls in the woods, and there is no-one to see him, is he
still infallible? Humor, jokes, no offense intended, everybody.
I also looked up the constituent countries of the NAC - y'all are right,
we're all over the map. With the various trends occuring, I make no (or few)
predictions there.
Noah
> You wrote:
> BTW, I checked some numbers on the CIA's World Factbook 1997
> much in 200 years. I think the RCC will hold some degree of power in
Remember though, those numbers indicate "official" Catholics. i.e., those
baptised as infants in RCC. Whether or not they've darkened the doors since
then is rather problematical. In many European nations you are sorta assumed
to be a certain religion unless you make an issue out of being otherwise. When
my parents lived in Germany during the late 1970s (for those of you counting,
yes, I was born there) German citizens paid a tithe as part of their annual
taxes. You checked either Catholic or Evangaelisch (analogous to US's
Lutherans, pardon my spelling). You could nominate another church with some
amount of governmental paperwork. But many Germans are Catholic or Lutheran
once
a year--when they check their little box on the tax form, and have
nothing to do with God or religion the rest of the time. Even in US without
governmental pressure one way or another, all churches have more bodies on
rolls than actually present. Last I heard, my church has about 700 paper
members. Sunday attendance is about 500 or so. And we have an agressive
program of weeding people off the rolls if they never show up and we can't
contact them (Hello, if you moved to Alaska it's common courtesy to let
organizations you are a member of know to drop you off the rolls). I
understand it's common for attendance in some churches to be a third or less
of the paper rolls.
> all over the map. With the various trends occuring, I make no (or
In US at least religion is very cyclical. Holiness
Movements/Awakenings/whatever at the drop of a hat, religions that are
here today and gone tomorrow, prediction is impossible.
> On 4 Jul 98 at 1:33, The cat that walks by himself wrote:
> Richard Slattery wrote:
Actually, I *was* saying that the conflict wasn't really religious per se, and
don't really assume it's piety that keeps the violence going, or that people
in NI are particularly more pious than the average brit (perhaps a little bit
in my experience).
Most people (erm, americans) don't seem to understand that the bulk of people
in NI just wish the idiots with guns and bombs would stop and let them live
their lives.
And as I drift massively off topic, please, any responses to my email address
please.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> You wrote:
> As a side note, I refer to UK citizens as brits, it's easier. Do the
I've never considered Yanks to be derogatory. Yankees (as in "Yankee go
home!") is unless referring specifically to New Englanders (esp the
stereotypical New England Liberal, see: Kennedy, Any), and God help the
'furriner' who mistakes a Virginian for a Yankee. BTW, anyone else think the
best exchange out of all the Sharpe's series movies was "You're an American?"
"No, suh. I am a Virginian."
> In a message dated 98-07-04 00:21:33 EDT, Richard S. writes:
<< As a side note, I refer to UK citizens as brits, it's easier. Do the
americans on this list have any objections to me calling them Yanks?
It's traditional for Brits to call you /all/ yanks, whether you are
Yankees or not. >>
Yank seems OK to me. Personally, I prefer 'Ami' - sounds more like
'amicable', a quality I think that we should work on. 'Yank', well, conjures
up pictures of indecent exposure and/or lewd acts, but it's fine,
really. 'Brit' is the usual term, AFAIK. What are the Canadians? Is 'Canuk'
perjorative? I guess that 'Future US Citizen' won't fly;) Are the Australians
'Aussies'? 'Ozzies'?
> On 3 Jul 98 at 23:05, Sabmason@aol.com wrote:
> BTW, I checked some numbers on the CIA's World Factbook 1997
Did they give the apathy/lapsed percentages too? ;)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> On 3 Jul 98 at 22:44, John Atkinson wrote:
> Last I heard, my church has about 700 paper members.
Which make me think (along with having visited your fair country) that on the
whole, americans take religion more seriously than brits.
I don't know /anyone/ who goes to church, and while the city I live
in has dozens of them, they all seem very under used.
Perhaps the brits get all enthused about religion again after working with the
Americans while helping them out in FT?
As a side note, I refer to UK citizens as brits, it's easier. Do the americans
on this list have any objections to me calling them Yanks?
It's traditional for Brits to call you /all/ yanks, whether you are
Yankees or not.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> -----Original Message-----
Definitely Aussie. Having lived amongst the Yanks for years I learnt that
Ozzies or Ossies means they also think Fosters is a good beer and that
kangaroos and drop bears are all over the streets. (We try and confine them to
parks;)) Though I was asked several times if I was from Louisiana!! I guess
that's Californians for you! Please don't make this a flame war!!
> Richard Slattery wrote:
> On 3 Jul 98 at 1:14, scipio@interlog.com wrote:
> As long as you don`t call us Canadians yanks everything will be fine
Well, (desperately trying to get this on theme by wondering what new Brit
contingent Anglian forces would call their Canadian brethren) what nickname do
Brits traditionally call Canadians? I'm sure there must be a WWII historical
name.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> On 3 Jul 98 at 2:54, scipio@interlog.com wrote:
> Canuk is not offensive, not like calling a Brit a limey.
Oops, answered in the next mail I read. Canuk? Canadian UK? As a brit, I don't
mind being called a limey actually, it's hardly insulting reminding us we ate
limes to stave off scurvey;)
Thinking of odd naval traditions, I'm sure the slightly swervy manuevering of
NAC ships is due to their daily tot of rum;) Shouldn't we think up an
equivalent tradition for space as the one for crossing the equator on earth?
Any ideas?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> In a message dated 98-07-04 20:01:33 EDT, Richard S. writes:
<<
Well, (desperately trying to get this on theme by wondering what new Brit
contingent Anglian forces would call their Canadian brethren) what nickname do
Brits traditionally call Canadians? I'm sure there must be a WWII historical
name. >>
(Agreeing with Richard's sentiments) I don't think that by 2183 (150 years
after Amalgamation and decades of brutal war) that there would be much
differentiating between Brit, Canuk & Yank units. Maybe in the names, but not
in national conciousness, as much (51st American Rifles; His Majesty's
Canadian Armored Guards, etc). If there were any major cultural sticking
points, I would suggest that they would be between the 'Norte Americanos' and
the 'Latino/Hispanic' contingents of the population. By 2183, The NAC
rules the entire Western Hemisphere of Terra.
> On 4 Jul 98 at 22:23, Sabmason@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 98-07-04 20:01:33 EDT, Richard S. writes:
Hmm, I beg to differ. An atlantic does a lot to keep national identity
seperate, especially when even within the UK each city and region has distinct
and closely held identities. Also, it makes it way more interesting to keep
them for gaming purposes.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[quoted original message omitted]
> Glover, Owen wrote:
> Well just have a look at the British Army after about 400 years; there
101st
> Airborne, 82nd Airborne, 1/21st Infantry they all have identities that
Yes it seems like the last thing you want to do in this environment is quash
unit identity, culture and history. Especially since it seems that the battles
are fought by smaller forces (like bn task forces). Why amalgamate units? I
can see standardizing weapons, organization etc, But if the NAC is going to be
run by the brits, it seems that they already have a very firm understanding of
keeping cultural identities seperate within army units (heck as a matter of
fact, much more than the US des.)
Richard spake thusly upon matters weighty:
> > Canuk is not offensive, not like calling a Brit a limey.
In Canadian Bacon (a movie), they did this well. As the Omega Force Commandos
bulled their way through a crowd to get to the "Canadian National" Tower, they
knocked Canadians flying. Meanwhile, the Canadians were saying things like "So
sorry." or "How could I be so clumsy?" as they were bodily being catapulted to
the ground. Heh! An excellent parody of US and Canadian Stereotypes. Worth a
laugh.
> Shouldn't we think up an equivalent tradition for space as the one
Crossing the plane of the Galaxy, your first FTL jump, etc.
Tom.
/************************************************
Thomas Barclay Software Specialist Police Communications Systems Software
Kinetics Ltd. 66 Iber Road, Stittsville Ontario, Canada, K2S 1E7
Reception: (613) 831-0888
PBX: (613) 831-2018
My Extension: 4009
Fax: (613) 831-8255
Software Kinetics' Web Page:
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**************************************************/
> At 04:40 PM 7/6/1998 -0500, Thomas Barclay wrote:
Its called Haven and it in the WarWorld Novel series....
Gort, Klaatu barada nikto!
> Again, if these never happened...they should have.
I've got a couple more for you.
CFSAC (Canadian Forces Small Arms Competition) - Ghurka team with
SA80s and support weapons and full kit. Completed the 2km full gear run in 14
minutes not even panting. Our team came through in about 17.5 minutes lugging
hard.
On a 300-200 meter rundown during a shoot, reserve team takes off and
is HALF way when the Ghurkas hit ground and open up. 100m timed by stopwatch
in combat boots with webgear and a rifle in less than 11 seconds, prone to
prone. Standing backflips at the Saturday evening party. Not guys I'd mess
with.
Landlady I stayed with for a while, her husband had been the bodygaurd for
King Farouk of Egypt (he was a british officer) and
he'd commanded Ghurkas. She told some stories - he said they were the
toughest troops he'd ever seen but that they didn't put up with jerks as
officers (a fair number of accidents and not so accidents happened to bad
officers).
My Grandad told me when he was at the Somme in WWI with the Scottish 16th
Highland Light Infantry, they were put in the lines near a
Ghurka unit. He said they'd go out into no-man's land at night with
nothing but the Kukri (no rifle) and come back toting German ears which they'd
string around their neck on a leather thong. He said units nearby were told
how to lace their boots since the Ghurkas would tell whether you were friend
or
enemy by your lacing pattern - if you weren't, and they
snuck up on you or got into your barracks or trench line, you were history.
Eventually they kind of grossed out everyone (the ears were starting to stink)
so I think command rotated them to somewhere else for morale reasons (everyone
elses!).
A fearsome force with some incredibly tough guys - but then if you
had to walk down a mountain out of Nepal just to have a *chance* to
enlist - and then faced what they face - you'd have to be pretty
tough of body and mind.
Guys I'd definitely want on my side...... even in 2300. Maybe there is a small
planet with a thin but breathable atmosphere with high mountains, rugged
terrain, and lush vegetation in deep valleys. The thin air in the high
altitudes will make the inhabitants excel in
thicker atmospheres - like distance runners who train in isobaric
chambers. And there should be some dangerous indigenous life. But it
should support some low-tech colonization and produce some excellent
small soldiers - who still keep Nepalese traditional ways of life
alive. Any suggestions for the name of such a place?
Tom.
/************************************************
Thomas Barclay Software Specialist Police Communications Systems Software
Kinetics Ltd. 66 Iber Road, Stittsville Ontario, Canada, K2S 1E7
Reception: (613) 831-0888
PBX: (613) 831-2018
My Extension: 4009
Fax: (613) 831-8255
Software Kinetics' Web Page:
http://www.sofkin.ca
SKL Daemons Softball Web Page:
http://fox.nstn.ca/~kaladorn/softhp.htm
**************************************************/
> ---- Slattery wrote:
> Shouldn't we think up an equivalent tradition for space as the one
there is one that turns up in no end of SF books: the
crossing-the-equator ceremony on earth is also known as 'crossing the
line'; the name is reused for the ceremony held on moon rockets when passing
the point of no net attraction between earth and moon (on the earth side of
this point, a body dropped from a stationary point falls to earth, on the
other side it falls to the moon). some sort of
high-jinks occurs as per the terrestrial version. this isn't much use an
an interstellar future where taking a moon rocket equates to catching the
modern 87 bus, but there you go.
PS: the small amount of physics in this message is not necessarily strictly
accurate. no flames please (i've got burned on this before...
:-).
PPS sorry this is so late, i've got a big mail backlog (only 200 messages to
go!).