Now Dream Pod 9?!?

Hello: Well, you learn something new everyday, and sometimes it's just not
worth learning it.   This morning I have just learned that Dream Pod 9
WILL NOT be present at GenCon this year. Along with Steve Jackson
Games, Tri-Tac, R. Talosin Games, and others not attending, this year's
GenCon may be a) very small, b) the last one.

All this talk about conventions has me nervous now...

Big companies are boycotting GenCon; does anybody know what the scuttlebutt is
on Origins? (I had time to go to one convention this year, and I picked
Origins because the scheduling works out better, and it's only about two hours
away from my parents house
in Windsor, ON.  (8-) )

J.

> All this talk about conventions has me nervous now...

Eh, we'll see what ultimately happens. Remember KR's post on this subject a
month or two ago? He didn't sound too worried that I could tell.

> Big companies are boycotting GenCon; does anybody know what the

Errr....where's Origins being held at this year?? I thought it was in
Columbus, Ohio...which, last *I* looked, was a shade more than 2 hours from
any point in Canada... (now, okay, I'll grant you someone
could have done gone and moved the city on me...  ;-)

Mk

Excerpts from FT: 25-Feb-98 Now Dream Pod 9?!? by "Mark A.
Siefert."@csd.u
> Well, you learn something new everyday, and sometimes it's

I dunno; I was under the impression that it wasn't doing *that* badly.
However, if anyone's interested, I can post (or just e-mail) a message
from Dream Pod 9 about why they're not going to GenCon. (Originally sent to
the Heavy Gear mailing list, and likely the Jovian Chronicles one as well.)

Basically, it boils down to, going to GenCon in DP9's early years was
productive since they did attract a customer base; but now that they have a
solid base, they're really just seeing the same people year after year...
sure, there's some new people, but overall it's not worth the increased cost
to just go to a big party.

No comment on Origins, though they did mention Dragon Con and San Diego Comic
Con as "thinking of attending" so that they could try to increase
the fan base -- instead of going somewhere where everyone (or nearly
everyone) is a gaming fan, why not try for new fans? Not a bad idea, in
my book....

Anyway, if you want to see the whole thing, please let me know.

> You naked inside your fear wrote:

Yup - Origins is in Columbus.  Alright; take Detroit to Columbus, and
add 15 minutes. Hmmm. Toledo is only an hour away, if that (closer to 45
minutes)... let me grab a WWW map...

Okay, looking at 2, 3 hr on the outside. Still close enough to make a
day trip of it.  (Though I'd be extremely tired at the end.  (8-) )

J.

> >this year, and I picked Origins because the scheduling works out

Toledo alone is ~3 hours from Columbus, Jer...  ;-)

Mk

> >Okay, looking at 2, 3 hr on the outside. Still close enough to make
I live in Columbus, and would say 3.5 hours. NOTE! Ohio is know for ticketing
speeders.

> P.S. Does a wave gun or nova cannon template kill every fighter
Yes! Fighters have 1 damage point each. Because Wave Guns and Nova Cannons are
area effect weapons, everything short of a planet that it touches takes
damage. Minimum damage on a Wave Gun is 2 points and Nova cannon is more. Thus
every fighter will be destroyed by these weapons. Also, any missiles will also
be destroyed.

> On Wed, 25 Feb 1998, Mark A. Siefert. wrote:

I dunno Mark, I think that may be a little pessimistic. From what I've seen,
too many game companies make too much money at GenCon to just abandon it.

Also, too many gamers have made the annual commitment needed to trek to
Milwaukee every year for the past n years, and I bet it would be very hard to
change things now. If Andon were foolish enough to change venues, cities, or
whatever as a way to cut costs, I think that GenCon would have to go through a
period of "rebuilding" to get attendance back up to the levels it has seen in
the past 5 years.

In a message dated 98-02-25 15:14:52 EST, you write:

<< Basically, it boils down to, going to GenCon in DP9's early years was
productive since they did attract a customer base; but now that they have a
solid base, they're really just seeing the same people year after year...
sure, there's some new people, but overall it's not worth the increased cost
to just go to a big party.
> [quoted text omitted]
This doesn't make sense to me. Dream Pod 9 had a VERY good team doing demos of
the Heavy Gear and Jovian Chronicles games, and had full tables at every event
I saw. The event my friend Seth Connolly participated in was a Gear Krieg game
(WWII Heavy Gear), and noone in the game had played before. He has since
bought the rules, a few supplements, and at least ten gears (now painted and
ready to play). I was very impressed by what I saw, and if it had fit in with
my schedule better, I would've played a game. I was definitely planning on
trying the game out this year, but in addition to not coming, they are not
sponsoring any games. This reduces their games' presence to a few independent
events.

The exposure gat the biggest gaming convention is worth the money, especially
if you can sell products. Don't most companies (Geohex included) at least pay
their costs with direct sales? Maybe the fact that RAFM was selling all the
miniatures at Gencon last year makes a difference. If the difference in booth
cost was 'only' $200 bucks or so, they could cram the employees into the rooms
a little tighter (sleeping bags, anyone?), or drive instead of flying.

Also, a collectors item Gencon only gear miniature is a great way to make some
dough to pay for the booth. Since I know I'll be into this game someday, even
I would buy it.

Regards, Steve Gibson

P.S. Does a wave gun or nova cannon template kill every fighter squadron it
touches?

On Wed, 25 Feb 1998 09:42:52 -0600, "Mark A. Siefert."
> <cthulhu@csd.uwm.edu> wrote:

> Well, you learn something new everyday, and sometimes it's just

First, this is old news. It's at least two weeks old.

Second, it's not QUITE true. It seems that while Dream Pod 9 will not be in
attendance, they are looking at selling their stuff at another booth. Likewise
for R. Talsorian and Palladium. Palladium, I believe, will be sold at the
Chessex booth. So far I've hard of SJG, R. Tal,
Palladium and Tri-tac. There were also a couple of tiny RPG companies
that also joined in the boycott. I haven't heard of anyone new for a couple of
weeks. The only company I know for SURE whose products you won't find is SJG.

I doubt if GenCon will be very small. Apparently some smaller companies that
could never get a crack into the dealer's room will be
there. Others are piggy-backing on other booths or selling their stuff
through other people.

And, as was discussed in the rec.games.frp.misc group, the booth prices really
aren't the biggest portion of some of these company's costs. Sure, if you have
ten booths and your costs went from US$500 to over US$800 per booth, you're
looking at serious change. But take a company like Pagan Publishing as an
example. They have one booth which will increase by about US$300. This pales
in comparison to the cost of hotel rooms, meals, and airline costs. And Pagan
made 20% of its revenue at GenCon last year.

I will contend that GenCon is now better for the smaller companies, the ones
that have difficulty getting into regular game stores. SJG's stuff I can get
anywhere, anytime. Pagan and even GZG I have trouble with. I intend to buy a
whack of GZG's figures this year (I meant to
last year but ran out of money :-)  ). I think the smaller companies
will do okay. It's the bigger ones like ICE, White Wolf and Chaosium that will
have to scale down their booths. Last year the first two had gaming areas in
the dealer's room. Chaosium had a lot of extra (I would say "wasted") space in
its booths that wasn't used for displaying stock. They will still be there but
there space will be smaller, leaving more room for more companies.

It's too early to pull the plug on GenCon. It may just have a touch of the
flu.

> >Okay, looking at 2, 3 hr on the outside. Still close enough to make

It's been nearly a decade since I've lived in Cols, longer since I took
a trip from Cols to Toledo. ~3 was an approx number.  ;-)

Mk

> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:28:52 -0500

What big companies?? I'm sorry folks but the companies mentioned so far do not
rule this industry any longer (and never did). But if all of you want to do
wish fulfillment, keep up all the negativism and
the shows may be a wash - for you.

KR, Geo-Hex

> All this talk about conventions has me nervous now...

Errrrrrrrrrrrr I can't think of of any place that's 2 hours from any point in
Canada unless you're talking about by plane. The drive from Toronto to
Montreal or Ottawa is 5 hours if you (hehehe) obey the speed limits.

Allan suggested ICE would have to cut back its GenCon presence.

I know half a dozen Ottawa ICE representatives for Silent Death who've been
told they won't be repeating their GenCon demos this year. Some companies are
just cutting back, rather than canceling out or piggybacking.

BEST, spake thusly upon matters weighty:

> Errrrrrrrrrrrr I can't think of of any place that's 2 hours from any

4.5 if you take the right route. 4 if you can find the accelerator...

:) TB

Excerpts from FT: 26-Feb-98 Re: Now Dream Pod 9?!? by Allan
Goodall@sympatico.
> I will contend that GenCon is now better for the smaller companies,

This is actually one of the reasons DP9 stated for their pulling out:
they *have* game store exposure in most areas (even some in Montana! ^_-
) so it's no longer worth the expense. A lot of people they saw at their booth
were basicaly just dropping by to chat a bit, maybe pick up the latest book;
but they'd have bought the book anyway, so what's the point?

Excerpts from FT: 25-Feb-98 Re: Now Dream Pod 9?!? by SGibson260@aol.com

> This doesn't make sense to me. Dream Pod 9 had a VERY good team doing

That's because Gear Krieg hasn't been released yet. ^_^  Slated for late
this year, assuming RAFM gets the minis out (it won't come out without
minis... unlike Jovian Chronicles).

> He has

I'm not sure why they're not sponsoring games; do you need a booth to do so?
Or else it may be tied in with the SJG boycott, but I really don't know.

> The exposure gat the biggest gaming convention is worth the money,

Trouble is, DP9 just does the books... and a lot of the people buying from
them would've bought the books at their local store anyway, so it wasn't
really giving them much more in the way of a profit.

> Maybe the fact that RAFM was selling all the

Well, minis are RAFM, not DP9....

On Thu, 26 Feb 1998 11:54:23 +0000, "Geo-Hex" <geohex@teleport.com>
wrote:

> What big companies?? I'm sorry folks but the companies mentioned so

The only one of the boycotters that I'd potentially miss is Steve Jackson
Games. However, I haven't bought GURPS stuff in ages and I can buy their new
stuff at the local game stores without a problem. I have Heavy Gear and a
boxed set of 10 gears but I haven't played it. The others really didn't
interest me. If SJG and Palladium not showing up means that someone smaller
but new gets a crack at the show, that would be for the better.

Besides, it looks like the bulk of my spending is going to be at the
GeoHex booth this year, anyway. :-)

On Thu, 26 Feb 1998 10:53:03 -0400, tmcarth@fox.nstn.ca (Tom McCarthy)
wrote:

> I know half a dozen Ottawa ICE representatives for Silent Death who've

It's too bad because I liked the demos. On the other hand, it's a lot of space
and cost in the dealer's room. Hopefully they will find some room to do some
demos in the open gaming areas.

> What big companies?? I'm sorry folks but the companies mentioned so

Oh i wouldn't go so far as to say they rule the industry.. but i WOULD say
that SJG, and Palladium are big players.. I don't think any ONE company
(except maybe TSR at one point) had a big enough hold on the industry to say
they 'ruled' it.. Frankly i don't hvae an opinion on GenCon yet.. I may not
like WOtC but GenCon hasn't even HAPPENED yet, so how do we know how it's
gonna be.. Plus, how can we base all future GenCOn's on this years, especialy
since TSR got bought and theres a whole crapload of changes.. Only time will
tell.

Howdy!

> On Fri, 27 Feb 1998, Tarlyn Xeno wrote:

> Oh i wouldn't go so far as to say they rule the industry.. but i WOULD
I may
> not like WOtC but GenCon hasn't even HAPPENED yet, so how do we know

My friends and I have been going to GenCon for 9 years (our first
was the wonderful '88 GenCon/Origins). Since '92, about 8 of us have
been memebers of Dreamsmiths, running games and convention support for a
number of companies in the industry. GenCon was our flagship con.

No longer.

Most of us are begging off this year. Almost all of the companies that we are
affiliated with (SJG DP9, etc.) are not going, and the GenCon convention
support people have been lacking in their social and organizational skills.
Also, since a lot of us are miniature gamers, the fact that the miniatures
gaming area was reduced even further than what was announced did not help...:)

GenCon will still be a large and enjoyable con. I do not think that it will be
anywhere as large as it was in the past, though. We won't be attending because
a LOT of people that we know and party with will not be there, the miniature
gaming will be even smaller, and the dealer's room will be a little emptier.

A shame, really.

        Ken