From: IronLimper@a...
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 10:19:42 EDT
Subject: Noble Armada
Has anyone bought or reviewed this space combat game for the Fading Suns RPG? I just saw it in the store yesterday and apparently it is both a space combat game and a boarding actions game. It includes aprox. 20 odd plastic figs, but there were no pictures of them on the box. The price was $55.00. How is the game, and is the company planning to bring out a line of ship figs? Thanks for any help. Don
From: Jonathan A. Gillett <jagman@u...>
Date: Sat, 01 Aug 1998 10:09:59 -0600
Subject: Re: Noble Armada
> At 08:19 AM 8/1/98 , IronLimper@aol.com wrote:
Thanks for
> any help.
I picked this up at Origins after talking to the game designer and playing a
demo.
Over in on the SF-Consimn List, they panned it mostly because the vector
movement in it is not a very good Newtonian system ("silly" is the word they
liked to use). Personally, I found that little "silly" movement system to be
"fun" and added to the overall feel of the game. I do have an
idea to adjust the movement system into being more Newtonian-like, but
have yet to play it that way.
As for the figs, they are fairly decent, with good detailing. The only "ugly"
ship is really a combination tug and transport: it looks like a
hand-held vacuum cleaner. One problem we have had is that the mounting
holes are the same size as the stand extension, we have broken off two stands
in those holes on two of the figures already.
They do plan on coming out with more figs, expanding the line into the heavy
cruiser and dreadnought classes. These figures will be based for two and three
hex stands, respectively. (Oh, these are 1 inch stands, and the current
figures are about 1" large.)
They also plan on coming out with Deck Plans (25mm scale) for the ships as
well! There are two sheets of deck plans included in the game, one for each of
two small ships (about 10man crews). These deck plans are for playing out the
boarding actions with the Fading Suns Minis that are coming out, if you want
more detail. Now back to the game itself. The rules are very simple, almost
making FT
complex in comparison! Turns are done with a mini-impulse system of 4
phases per turn. Each ship has maneuver thrusters that allow it to change
heading. Then there are the main engines which give movement thrust to change
speed in the direction you are heading. Depending on what speed you are going
in each phase, you get to move so many hexes (example, speed 4
=
1, 1, 1, 1; speed 6 = 2, 1, 2, 1; speed 9 = 2, 2, 2, 3). You get to fire each
system of weapons only once per turn (thus causing all sorts of
"wobbling" as you fire your port-side broadside, rotate for your forward
guns, then rotate again for your starboard-side broadside, then reverse
for the next turn). Firing is done by starting with the basic rating of the
gunners (say 12), then dropping that down by 1 for each full 4 hexes away the
target is, and rolling a D20. A 1 is always a hit. A roll of exactly what you
needed to hit is a critical. A 20 always misses.
Another neat thing is that shields are very "Dune"-like; the fast you
go, the less shields you have for protection. So as shields suffer
burn-out,
ships have a tendency to slow down to bring the "reserves" back on line.
Shield burn-out also has the added effect on ship "wobbling" (there is a
shield for each hex-side) as ships try to protect and attack weaker
sides.
Now, boarding actions. This is what drew my attention to the game in the first
place (I'm quite happy with FT, I wasn't looking for a new Space Combat game).
First step in boarding is to grapple the other ship. Then you send your
marines over to board. Combat is very simple, for each marine you have, roll a
D20. For each hit, remove an enemy marine. The side who takes more losses must
retreat into another section. When the bridge is taken, the ship is captured.
There are limits to the number of marines that can leave a ship each phase,
and a limit on how many marines can be in a ship location.
One problem we encountered: When two forces, each with ships designed
primarily for boarding actions, mingle it up in one big grappled mess,
boarding actions can get a bit out of hand. We had 6 ships all in a big mess,
with over 60 marines per side raising general havoc. When it was over, it was
the marines that won. Only two ships survived with their bridge crews intact,
most of the others having been run through back and forth in the battle.
-JAG (Hoping this wasn't too long nor too short, but probably wrong on
both counts)
From: Doug Evans <devans@n...>
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 11:27:11 -0500
Subject: Re: Noble Armada
Having just glimpsed an open copy, can't give you much in the way of details. Sprues of included ships are similar to newer Silent Death, i.e., hard silver-grey plastic. Some are quite fetching, some I didn't care for at all. Sharp details, though. The game itself's fire arc diagrams, and the fact it's on hexes reminded me somewhat of AoG's B5Wars, but I didn't get a chance to analyse the movement or combat systems. Included in the set were outline diagrams of two of the ships with 'rooms' to regulate combat on board. Can't recall if there was a hex or square grid. I seem to recall just the basic outline/divisions, as if it played as an area style game. Hope to have a better look before heading out to GenCon, but if someone else has a better review, I'm all ears. So far, even if I were an ardent Fading Suns RPG player, the $50 would be totally daunting. The_Beast
From: Geo-Hex <geohex@t...>
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 14:52:55 +0000
Subject: Re: Noble Armada
> From: <IronLimper@aol.com> > Has anyone bought or reviewed this space combat game for the Fading Thanks for > any help. Movement is a little more detailed than FT and carried out on a hexgrid. You fire to knock out shields, and loss of shields also can slow a ship down (meteorites and space dust start to erode the hull). The package resembles Silent Death, they give you mini's, stands and dice as well as rules and a gameboard. We'll be making the "official" cloth starmat for them after Gen Con. Also included are paper templates resembling the old Traveller style templates for moving about inside the ships. The game is designed to mesh with the Fading Suns roleplay system, so characters can come into play. Example: instead of using the generic gunnery skill, a weapon system manned by a player character uses that character's stats. AOG will be making metal ships for the line and these should be available - I believe - at Gen Con.
From: Doug Evans <devans@n...>
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 17:29:08 -0600
Subject: Re: Noble Armada
The subject has come up a couple of times, including the period after I got to
play the game at a GenCon. Full details available in the archives.
I'd have to say that the boarding rules are more abstract than, say,
Traveller, about the level of the Star Fleet Battles separate module. I don't
have good enough memory of the boarding procedure for a feel for how they'd
mesh with FTII, though I'm skeptical with a lot of fill work.
***
They're not all that big, averaging around DD-CL size in FT terms IIRC.
Some nice designs, and they'd do well for privateers, merchants and similar
stuff.
***
That would be the basic rule set; think Silent Death: Next Millenium plastic
size and quality. The other boxed sets include larger, up to
roughly BD-SD size metal. I was disappointed with the quality on the set
I picked up.
The_Beast
-Douglas J. Evans, curmudgeon
One World, one Web, one Program - Microsoft promotional ad
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Subject: Re: More weapon concept questions
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***
If a list member who's familiar with Starfire would make a commercial
announcement every now and again, some of us might have spent our Christmas
budget a little differently. <g>
***
I certainly salute Oerjan's good sense and tact in keeping OT announcements
off-list! However, a small indiscretion once or twice a year would
probably not be amiss, especially in the midst of comment on the system in
response to another list member.
I promise not to feed him opportunities. ;->=
The_Beast
-Douglas J. Evans, curmudgeon
One World, one Web, one Program - Microsoft promotional ad
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From: Sean Bayan Schoonmaker <s_schoon@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: More weapon concept questions
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> You know, the latest edition of Starfire is out, 4th edition IIRC, and
Check out the cool intro at their site as well!
http://starfiredesign.com/starfire/
Schoon
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From: "Peter Mancini" <peter_mancini@msn.com>
To: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
Cc: rodney.c.fernald@siemenscom.com
Subject: Re: New Conversion of Babylon 5 for FT
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> Hm? Not sure if you mean 3-5 crew members or 3-5 crew stars on SSD
Since I specify the crew markers in the structure, I mean the later.
Otherwise, what are we talking about, a 9mm pistol?
> I can name another well-known SF series (movies though, not TV) where
Battleship and Cruiser are relatively modern terms, with Cruiser being the
older term. Also, why would future navies be more likely to use original terms
than more contemporary terms? (Unless of course the author didn't do any
homework on the subject!)
> The Minbari in the show - Delenn in particular - seem to be quite
Well, first off, Delenn is not of the Warrior Caste. Not to imply that the
religious cast is made up of cowards (several warrior caste cough loudly in
the background) but they aren't always the best people to turn to for military
thought. (lots of "hear hear" from the warrior caste)
> The same problem as the Shadow beam weapon, but we've swapped roles <g>
It always abates in FT. In my version it must take checks. You can punch holes
in my armor and weaken it. I could come up with a more complex verson but I am
concerned with game play. It will take a few test games to try it out and see
what the effect is. Hopefully this weekend I will have completed some
skirmishes and will report.
> In the standard game the EMP MT missile and the Needle Beam clearly
P-Torps should definitely only be affected marginally as well as the EMP
MT
Missile and K-Guns. I will write up a chart of armor effects on ALL
weapon types and post it.
> And, as the rules were written last I read them, you hadn't yet decided
That bit requires testing and thinking. It will be figured out by just playing
a few games and seeing what comes naturally. I suspect it will
reduce weapon on a per hit basis - but let's wait and see.
> See the comments about the Shadows vs Minbari above. In the show it
Note comments about Delenn above ("Religious Tart!" "Down in Front!") Clearly
they do miss, mostly White Stars but also Narns who are properly
motivated. Shadows are tough, but even the fricking Minbari beat them 1000
years ago so, I think they are tough like a biker gang on PCP but bleed just
like the rest of us when hit with enough force and not these magical
invulnerable black spiders who cringe into nothing when Psi-geeks show
up. The real question is, at what point do I need to worry about this? One
could argue that most of the battles with the Shadows were really races to Get
the Hell out of Dodge. So perhaps they don't have to be modeled other
than as scenario gimics (i.e. do such and such a task in X-turns or else
the Shadow Cruiser shows up and shaves and slivers your ship.) Hmmm, nice
alliteration...
> Sort of like the transition for
Actually they spent that prior to adopting them in 900BC as a military
arm -
but I am sure it took quite a few skirmishes before real tactics took hold.
Also note that during those 3 centuries you had to convince a lot of nobels
that inspite of the status the chariot gave them on the battlefield, they were
likely to get their asses handed to them in any engagement with Cavalry. Note
further that this in fact happened. Also, the 'Chariot Runners' as they were
still called served a useful purpose even when the
Cavalry fought from horseback.
This has been fun. I can't wait to get my hands dirty playing with these
ideas. I am glad there are so many people on the list willing to offer ideas
and comments to help out.
As my friend comments about the Omegas, "Ram Speed Mr.Sulu!"
--Peter
"Ok, which of youse called First Minbari Delenn a 'Religious Tart'?"
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Subject: Re: New Conversion of Babylon 5 for FT
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> Actually, if you re-view some of the major battles of the multiple
Was that meant as a pun (see my emphasis)? If not it should have been.
Actually Mark, I think your prior work on B5 is what inspired me most. I also
believe that much of what you have done has been an influencing factor in the
further direction of FT. I think that now with all of the new rules we have in
the two FBs I can create a B5 game that is very close to core FT. I want to
invent as little as possible so that the ships are at least comprable to the
rest of the canon Tuffly'verse.
Something else has happened since I started this project a couple of weeks
ago, I've started to look at the show with a different eye. I still LOVE the
show, but I think I've enjoyed it enough to look at it critically. The
best part is discovering "accidents of the brush" - if you know what I
mean. Also it means finding all the crap in the story line too, but since I
enjoyed it so much the first two times watching the series from begining to
end I can put up with it.
--Peter
"Just so long as I don't have to watch "Grey 17 is Missing" _ever_
again..."
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From: Brian Burger <yh728@victoria.tc.ca>
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Subject: Re: [FT]Fleet Book 2...
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> On Mon, 18 Dec 2000, Allan Goodall wrote:
> On Mon, 18 Dec 2000 14:48:51 -0500 (EST), Mark Kochte
It's probably not a good idea to mention Freud in connection with the
Phalons...
What's gotten into the list in the last week? We've got Tom & Beth's
disscussion of 'single-speed tools', and now (another) Phalon thread. Is
this some sort of Christmas-shopping-induced brain damage? :>
Oh, and For The Record: My sole FT fleet is a Phalon one; I rather like the
figures, and think that Freudians should really (please) go out and get
help...
Brian - yh728@victoria.tc.ca -
- http://warbard.iwarp.com/games.html -
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Subject: Re: More weapon concept questions
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 17:25:57 -0800
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> Another question/idea that has been rolling around in my grey
You know, the latest edition of Starfire is out, 4th edition IIRC, and
prominent among the text on the back of the box is (paraphrased) "reduced
paperwork" and "easy to understand". Around US$49.
If a list member who's familiar with Starfire would make a commercial
announcement every now and again, some of us might have spent our Christmas
budget a little differently. <g>
From: Dean Gundberg <dean.gundberg@n...>
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 08:36:21 -0600
Subject: RE: Noble Armada
> I have looked at the web page but that did not give a view of the
I had scanned in the plastic minis included in the boxed set for Tom's
Spaceship Games and Minis page since this isn't the first time I've seen this
question:
http://zappa.brainiac.com/spaceship/noble-armada-minis.html
I actually like the metal minis they put out though they do have a bit more
flash than I'd like. They are scuplted and cast by AOG and the Dreadnoughts
have no bottom detail but otherwise I will have a fleet of Decados ships
painted someday.
Dean Gundberg
Starship Combat News The latest information on Space Games and Miniatures
http://star_ranger.homestead.com/
star_ranger@my-deja.com
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From: Jeremey Claridge <jeremy.claridge@kcl.ac.uk>
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Subject: Re: RE: New Wargame Website (chance to be a critic)
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> While I think Beth's comment is true, it would also change the feel of
scenario.
> Perhaps introduce an "Alpha Queen" for the planet or space region.
Well if you consider that the mother alien produces all other units, then the
size of the mother alien that produces other mother aliens.....
So your right in that it is unlikely that the head of the species would be
present on the battlefield. There would certainly be a hierarchy which could
be put into the rules.
> If you give the aliens ECM, you could also give them distance
Yeah but I was worried that they would then be too much like convertional
force
s.
This is the trouble with making alien rules. I didn't want to just have a
renam ing exercise for existing systems, sometimes to have to be illogical to
make it wel l alien.