I hope not. Several times in the local gaming store I have recommended FT to a
parent and young person who were shopping together. Parents are almost always
skeptical (D&D is satanic, don't-ya-know). Why?
1. FT is quick and easy to learn. 2. It is inexpensive compared to many other
miniature games 3. Lack of overt sexual and demonic content (plus for the
parent) 4. The mailing list. I point out that this mailing list is a great
educational resource. I have seen discussions on probability, physics,
history, psychology, astronomy, literature and other topics. Also, this list
carries a VERY LOW noise to signal ratio (flames to content). My hat's off to
all the fine people who continue to make this list TRUELY valuable.
My profound apologies if it sounded like I meant munchkin as of young age.
Amongst some of us, and I think the point of the SJG book, though I'll have to
go back and look, is using munchkin for anyone enamoured of la belle fromage.
The_Beast
Quoting devans@uneb.edu (Tue, Feb 08, 2000 at 08:16:57AM -0600)
> My profound apologies if it sounded like I meant munchkin as of young
The definition of munchkin in York (UK) seems to be anyone who a) exploits the
system to get a better [character,gun,ship] or b) someone who brags about
their [character,ship,gun] that some nameless GM foolishly allowed 'lookit my
50th level mage-thief-cleric-warrior' and so on.
I'm all for introducing youngsters (pah, I'm only 23 myself) to the game, and
the list.
> On Tue, 8 Feb 2000, Bell, Brian K wrote:
> From: devans@uneb.edu [SMTP:devans@uneb.edu]
<snip/>
> 4. The mailing list. I point out that this mailing list is a great
agreed. somehow, the list seems to be self-selecting against
munchkinism; perhaps it's the quality of the games, perhaps it's the player
demographics; i think a lot of it is that munchkinism cannot survive in an
envirnoment filled with sensible, mature gamers, which is pretty much what
GZG-L is.
tom
Ahhh. Another cultural difference. Munchkin is slang in US (at least my
area) for anyone under the age of 16 (usually refers to a pre-teen or
younger).
I was also aware of the mini-maxer conitation. But was afraid that the
broader sense may have been intended in the statement. I am glad to see that
it is not.
-----
Brian Bell bkb@beol.net
> On Tue, 8 Feb 2000, Bell, Brian K wrote:
> From: colin.plummer@theplanet.net [SMTP:colin.plummer@theplanet.net]
really? it's remarkable that there's been so little confusion over this!
> I was also aware of the mini-maxer conitation. But was afraid that the
i think the UK definition of a munchkin would feature the term 'cheesy': a
munchkin will twist the rules of a system to gain an advantage, even though
it's Just Not Cricket. they'll do it by exploiting loopholes or
irregularities to create powerful ships/armies/characters; compare to a
min/maxer, who is usually more mathematical, and to a rules lawyer, who
will use sensible forces, but twist the rules so that they have an advantage
("actually, it doesn't say you can't use pulse torpedoes against fighters...",
although that's a naff example). the munchkin's main decision rule is
'whatever gets the most pluses'.
see:
http://www.webrpg.com/survey/results20.phtml
http://members.tripod.com/DiceTales/munchtest.html
tom
***
Ahhh. Another cultural difference. Munchkin is slang in US (at least my
area) for anyone under the age of 16 (usually refers to a pre-teen or
younger).
***
;->= I'd suggest it would be difficult to find more 'middle' America
than Lincoln, Nebraska. However, the two definitions merge when you figure
that such an outlook is easily defined as 'immature'.
As it is context-derived, I might easily had thought of munchkins as
youthful if I hadn't seen the SJG book recently.
When looking at a large group of rowdy children on a playground, the
connection is even more clear.
What Brian's point reminds us is that immaturity manifests in all ages. I
delight at being a kid when gaming; I hate it when I find myself being
childish. ;->=
Similar terms, different meanings: simple joi d'vie vs. petulant
irrationality.
I will, however, admit great admiration for those that can share games with
the young; does often take a special patience and understanding.
The_Beast
I'm only 17, and I have four friends ages 16-17 who SGII with me. I've
been D&D since I was 8! I've been wargaming(Warhammer Fantasy, eeeewwww!)
since I was 12. started playing SGII when I was 15.
> On Tue, 8 Feb 2000, Tom Anderson wrote:
> On Tue, 8 Feb 2000, Bell, Brian K wrote:
The list is pretty self-selecting against munchkinism, and the games
even more so. This was brought home for me a couple of weeks ago while
intro'ing two new people to SG2 - There really is no way to cheese-out
basic SG2. Even Elite 1 PA squads blow rolls, amd more importantly, they
_suppress_ just as easily!
I don't know about other people's experience, but what usually happens in our
SG2 games is that the PA, outnumbered 1.5 or 2 to 1, carry out one or two
brutal close assaults, then get pinned down by fire and slowly, slowly cut to
pieces.
DS2 is similarly balanced - a giant, potentially cheezy Ogre-type
vehicle can and would be killed by a horde of Size 1 fleas...
It's the best feature of the GZG games, I think.
> I'm only 17, and I have four friends ages 16-17 who SGII with me.
I've been D&D
> since I was 8! I've been wargaming(Warhammer Fantasy, eeeewwww!)
since I was 12.
> started playing SGII when I was 15.
You were lucky I was in my early 20's before I discovered there was more to
Wargaming than GW:) Mind you I did go from one extreme to the other by first
picking up a copy of WRG!
I'm now happy having found the very playable middle ground:)
> > 4. The mailing list. I point out that this mailing list is a
I almost hate to do a "me too," but I also agree that this list is an
invaluable resource for opinions and ideas. My hat's off to all contributors.
Jon's got a secret treasure trove.