You know something... This is just an observation mind you, but the
> idea of "no-good-guys" seems to be the trend in game background writing
You are correct, there are very few games systems that put forth the
"good-guy" ideal. Perhaps this is due to the better understanding of
history. In all wars, terrible acts have always been committed by both sides.
There are no exceptions to this. The scale may be different and the reason,
but they still occurred. One problem, is that people seem to be constantly
shocked when atrocities occur in warzones. They have always happened, and most
likely will continue to happen. Although Western nations
like to think they were/are the "White knights" of warfare, it too was
often rusted and dirty in many places. We are allowed a greater understanding
(through more indepth study of history) of what mankind is willing to do to
each other under certain conditions. I must admit that I too am a person who
seldom sees the True Blue Good Guy from the fairy tales. My studies in history
has been the greatest influence to this idea. I think that people try to make
the games they play, as close to reality as is possible for a fictional game.
Therefore, they implace their impressions of people and soceity (often bad
ones) into their worlds. this helps them appear more realistic. So there's my
limited to view on this. Maybe it would be better if we did get back to games
that offered kinder world like "Star Wars" with an obvious "Evil" enemy. Maybe
not.
> Doug_Evans/CSN/UNEBR@UNebMail.UNeb.EDU wrote:
line JT
> mentioned earlier. ;->=
You know something... This is just an observation mind you, but the
idea of "no-good-guys" seems to be the trend in game background writing
these days. (e.g. WH40K, Heavy Gear, Warzone and quite a few other games out
on the market.) Have we become so cynical and so pesimistic that we no longer
desire for real heros and obvious villians for the modern myths we weave? If
so, why are we like this.
> You know something... This is just an observation mind you, but
Perhaps its simply a true reflection of the reality of our times. One mans
hero is anothers villain...For instance I just watched a program on "Alexander
the Greats" conquests. It would seem that in Iran (Persia in those days) he is
still known as "Alexander the curse". Most people are well enough educated
these days to recognise that the old idea of heroes and villains is rather
antiquated. There really is no black and white just shades of gray...
Pardon the drift into philosophy.
With regard to various gaming backgrounds I think this idea of good and evil
fals apart when you get into dealing with nation states (as many games do).
You really can't generalise that easily considering how diverse most nations
are. I like the FT universe and the fact that there are no definite "good
guys" in it. Unless you want to include the Kra'vak in this and thats only
because we don't know what their real motivation is. Bug eyed alien monsters
after all. You just can't trust em.
At least as far as the US is concerned... I think it represents a growing
cynicism towards
governments/corporations.
We now hear about nearly everything done by our government & corporations,
right or wrong, and we know that that's not the whole truth (everybody has
secrets). We assume the worst of our government, and are usually rewarded with
just that. I know, this is a question of living up to standards, but we've
been pretty disillusioned lately. On a much less philosophical nature, I think
it's kind of a dodge in
game-universe writing (no offense, Jon - see below). With no good guys,
there are few standards of conduct, and you can play any side any way you
want. Most power-gamers, the most common kind, don't want to be limited
in
any way, 'cause they win their games through firepower and super-units
alone. Who would want to be stuck with a bunch of Imperial Guard, when you can
have Chaos Terminator Marines? ('Scuse the GW reference) Who would
play the Federation in Star Fleet Battles, if you were forced to use the
Non-Violent Combat (?) rules? Darn few. That's what i think is a shame
about the trend in recent games (cards, GW) - it's all about points &
power. I miss the hex-&-counter games, where one side was weaker by
design, not by budget of the player, or what rule supplement/booster
pack you have bought most recently. On the gripping hand, GZG has done a
wonderful job with their stuff. I understand the 'no good guys' in the
setting, but nobody is really
'evil',
either. It's a good balance. And the points stuff is well presented as
'take it or leave it'. I usually leave it. Their concepts and commentary on
scenario design are quite insightful as well, and the
Motivation/Fatigue
part of SG2 is one of the best things I've seen in a very long time. And what
good, plentiful and inexpensive minis! (See, Jon, I wasn't after
you!)
Noah who *likes* to play the ESU, and not just for the slogans, either.
[quoted original message omitted]
Well, it might be because games like FT, SGII and DSII are aimed at more
mature gamers, and not 12-year olds with rich parents, as WH40k seems to
be doing more and more:) (which reminds me that WH40k is emphasizing the good
space marines versus evil orks and chaos more and more) Some of the other
games you mentioned are meant to have a dark, gothic
atomsphere (i.e. warzone and the old WH40k), so "no-good-guys" is a good
way of achieving that.
The GZG games are essentially Sci-fi with modern-style politics, so
there should be no clear "heroes" versus "villains" either. What do you mean
by "cynical" and "pessimistic" though, it's simply being realistic, as there
never was a case of good guys versus bad guys in history, besides kindergarten
stories and propaganda. Thing always tend to be more complicated than that.
> At 10:07 PM 1/27/98 , Gary Kett wrote:
%< snip >%
> Maybe it would be better
with
> an obvious "Evil" enemy. Maybe not.
Yeah, those pesky rebel scum deserved what they got! Blast them for corrupting
the Lord of the Sith in the last movie. Can't wait to see the rise of the
Empire in the prequels coming up Real Soon Now.
But then people complain about all those who decide that they want to be
different and play the "EVIL" faction. I think that more people worry
about the anti-heroes more than the un-hero. The other thing you have
to worry about is that if everyone wanted to play the good guys, who would be
left to play against? (Of course, in the battle between good and evil, evil
has more fun. Go VTOG!) When everyone has a "grey" background, it allows
players to choose for themselves whom they wish to best represent them. By
being no better nor any worse, it doesn't make them all bad, just as it
doesn't make them all good.
And that, IMNSHO, is not, by itself, a Bad Thing.
-JAG