> It's a reflection of real life. Almost every nation has an atrocity
It may be realistic but it's lousy storytelling. If you want the grit and
grime, you can have it; but don't you get enough in real life? When I play, I
want villains and heroes and no confusing which is which. The heroes are never
perfect, and the villains aren't necessarily completely
evil--but you know who to cheer for.
Generally the hero is the outnumbered, outgunned little guy who stands up for
his principles despite the enormous potential cost (I grant you, real life
examples of nations that act this way are not just instantly leaping
to mind--although we might perhaps argue that Britain acted this way in
WWII ?). The Napoleon of Notting Hill, by GK Chesterton, examines this
idea at more length and is considerably more interesting than my writing...
> On Tue, 21 Jul 1998, Brian Bell wrote:
> > The GZG games are essentially Sci-fi with modern-style politics, so
In my case, the infantry grunts and tankers of my side are _of _course_
Noble Defenders of Everything Worth Defending; your evil scummy troops are
Defilers of the Universe...
> I would disagree. The heroes are, obviously, the crew of the ships
You mean, the heroes are the crew of the ships that *I* command, and the
villains are the crew of the ships *you* command. :-)
Hear hear! Now, back to figuring out how to drop rocks on the Bourgeois
Capitalist Running Dogs...
Noah
[quoted original message omitted]
> The GZG games are essentially Sci-fi with modern-style politics, so
I would disagree. The heroes are, obviously, the crew of the ships that I
command. The villans are, equally obviously, you and the crew of the
ships you command. ;-}
But, as someone else has pointed out, just because there is no "Evil Empire"
or Nation of Goodness, doesn't mean there can't be any heroes or villians.
True heros will perservere and fight for what is right, even if their
government doesn't particularly give a rat's a$$.
Or look at the story in a different way. The "official" histories are written
from a fairly neutral point of view. The facts are recorded, but little is
really said on the morality of the actions, or on who is in the right.
Instead, you can think about your games from the point of view of history
books, written by your chosen country. History books in the NAC are sure to
lay the blame for all three Solar Wars on the ESU. The ESU are filthy stinking
commies, and the FSE are just a bunch of arrogant Frenchmen. From this point
of view, both you and your opponent can enjoy the pleasure of "knowing" that
they're firmly in the right. Your generals are the greatest of heros, your
opponent's the filthiest of villians.
I think my problem is when you go trying to hang the title of "villian" on a
whole country. A whole country full of "evil" people just seems to unrealistic
to me. Like another load of propaganda.
If you like the idea of the underdog hero, there is still plenty of room in
the GZG universe. There are quite a few mentions of small minor powers
scattered throughout the histories, who undoubtably have to continually fight
to not be swallowed by the "Imperialist pigs."
I think that's the charm of the GZQ universe, there's room there for
anything you want. Huge ammoral nation-states expanding for the sake of
expanding, heroic individuals leading valiantly for "right". Underdogs
fighting against the grips of oppression.
I've rambled long enough, back to lurking for me:)
> On Tue, 21 Jul 1998, laserlight wrote:
> > It's a reflection of real life. Almost every nation has an atrocity
When I
> play, I want villains and heroes and no confusing which is which. The
> Or look at the story in a different way. The "official" histories are
"History is written by the victor."
While often this quote rings true, in times recently we have seen a parting of
the ways from this... though starting a conversation like that would be
seriously OT.:)
Written:
In my case, the infantry grunts and tankers of my side are _of
_course_ Noble Defenders of Everything Worth Defending; your evil
scummy troops are Defilers of the Universe...
Replied:
Demonization of the enemy? I knew that was a standard prep for combat troops
but I never expected it on the list..... (grin)
I second the vote that this is a 'heavy' topic. We could spend inummerable
bytes just concluding we all have different POV about
whether evil exists and whether peoples are evil/good or not. Since
the background is optional, if you don't like a No-Heroes No-Villains
background, do what makes you and your group happy with it. If you like the
idea of the Evil NSL crushing the helpless peoples under their Iron Jackboot,
and being rescued by the Heroic and Unflappable NAC with the stiff upper lip
then go for it. I think Jon has said repeatedly that the game(insert any FMA
system) has flexibility engineered into almost every aspect of it so people
can do what they want to with it. That is its single greatest virtue.
Tom.
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> Ground Zero Games <jon@gzero.dungeon.com> wrote:
[...]
> What I should have said, probably, is that there are no NATIONS that
> This doesn't mean, however, that there are no INDIVIDUAL heroes (and
I'd always assumed that the lack of obvoius good/bad guys was simply
to let the players define their own - thus no-one /has/ to play either
the good guys or the bad guys in a battle unless that's how they want to see
their side.
I definitely like good vs. evil in a game. Sort of spices things up. However,
my idea of a good guy may not be the same as everyone else. for example: I'm
going to control a small empire in our game based on ancient Egypt (complete
with Pharoah). I envision them as an industrious, stable group with few
designs on their neighbors. KR (of Geohex) is constantly trying to turn them
in to something sinister just because they have a hidden Artificial
Intelligence computer to help run things. KR's heroes, on the other hand, are
(naturally) the Free Irish. They got their start by stealing a part of the NAC
fleet. And even today are a smuggleing, theiving, piratical, scummy lot
:-).
One mans terrorist is anothers freedom fighter Tim
> Brian Bell wrote:
> > The GZG games are essentially Sci-fi with modern-style politics, so