Hello List members, Have a minor question for you...
Suppose you have a ship with nothing but needle beams. Further suppose that
you concentrate it's fire on a battle ship with 3 fire controls. Now, further
suppose that you get lucky, and you knock out all three firecontrol systems.
Does that mean that the ship's effectiveness just went out the door (the
capital ship I mean)? So, a fleet armed with multiple needle beams can be a
major hassle???
Just seems a crying shame for a ship to be heavily armored/shielded,
only to be rendered ineffective by a series of needlebeam carrying "sting
ships". Consider what this would do the the newer version of FT 3. A turret
with 8 tons of mass allocated to it, gets taken out by a slew of needle beam
armed ships that cost much cheaper than the original capital ship carrying the
turret. Perhaps it would be wise to come up with a concept of heavy needle
beams, medium needle beams, and light needle beams. Reason: each needle beam
can only take out a system of it's rated tonnage. Ie a heavy needle beam can
take out anything 4 tons and less, a medium can take out anything rated at 2
tons or less, and a light at 1 ton or less... (please, this is off the cuff,
and probably not worth considering, but something to think about at
least...).
> On Wed, 4 Dec 1996 hal@buffnet.net wrote:
> Hello List members,
Now,
> further suppose that you get lucky, and you knock out all three
Yes it can be. Its usually performed at least once as a swarm tactic, a
horder of ships armed soley with a needle beam and thrust 8. The proper
way to defend against this is to spread out your fleet assets, use 2 cruisers
instead of 1 capital ship or add more fire controls. Needles vs. A bats is a
loser for the needles except in rare cases where the
needles get lucky and achieve greater than 1/3 hits. The added range of
A bats usually give them 1 free shot before coming under fire. Against small
ships a few good hits is all that is required to force a threshold
or even destroy them. From a statistical point of view, pulse torpedoes are
more dependable to do damage although higher risk since you have to get in
closer to have a good chance of doing damage. Another extreme tactic is mini
ships loaded to the gills with scatter guns, but once again, you
have to get close enough to be effective. Like any other strategy taken to
extremes it can be tough to defend against, but not impossible.
--Binhan
> Suppose you have a ship with nothing but needle beams. Further
Now,
> further suppose that you get lucky, and you knock out all three
well... yes, the ship just went out the window, but that would take, on
average, 18 needlebeam shots. since needlebeams can't be grouped onto the same
firecon unless they shoot at the exact same firecon, the most efficient method
(for only 18 needlebeam shots) would take 18 firecons! not to mention the fact
that you must get within 9 inches and have the enemy in the right arc, etc...
> tons or less, and a light at 1 ton or less... (please, this is off the
I think needlebeams are ok the way they stand. A batteries, I hear, are much
more of a problem, however...
Hal writes,
> Just seems a crying shame for a ship to be heavily
You can rationalize your way around the armor by saying needle beams fire at
exposed targets (stuff outside the armor). But you'd think that needlers would
be affected by shields, since they are essentially a specialized beam weapon.
One way to do this is to require needle attack vs. shielded ships roll
different dice:
target need to shields roll
Hello Folks, I'm kinda confused here about the tactics required to make needle
beam armed sting ships work...
If I have only two needle beams per ship, each with two fire controls, and I
send 6 of them against one capital ship, all I have to do is aim 4 needle
beams per fire control. I don't have to aim each needle beam at one FC right?
Thus, the odds of getting a 6 with four shots per FC winds up being roughly a
2 in 3 chance per FC. From what I have seen in FT and FT 2, the odds of taking
out a decent sized ship quickly are rather poor. One design I liked was taking
a DD hull (standard) and mounting a submunitions pack, along with a level 1
shield, and an A battery with 3 firearcs. Taking two of these against a
standard heavy cruiser, I was able to defeat a ship that worth more than the
two ships combined. I haven't had the chance to "test" my thoughts on needle
beam armed ships, but as it stands right now, the concept would be that each
needle beam arrangement should have an added FC per needle beam, and then load
up with "normal" weaponry. Since I don't have my FT or FT 2 books right now
(trying to entice a friend of mine into getting involved with FT <grin>), I
can't work with real numbers just
yet...
But the theory seems sound - spread your fire amongst different
targets, so that you don't get multiple kills against the same unit, when you
need to get multiple hits on different units. I saw one battle where a cruiser
took a level 1 damage check, and lost over 50% of it's armaments, as compared
with a ship that took a level two damage check, and lost only one B battery!
Likewise, I expect there will be battles where the needle beams reign
surpreme, and others where they stink big time...
As for speed being the main defense against needle beams, that is why you
target them against the slower capital ships. Not only are the capital ships
likely to be heavily armored (shielded), but also slower and likely to contain
the higher portion of the enemy fleet's weaponry.
Again, I must point out that these are musings without the benefit of having
the books in front of me...
> Hal wrote:
Now,
> further suppose that you get lucky, and you knock out all three
Anyone say "Ram!!"?;)
> Scott Field wrote:
Maybe it's because the needle weapon can deliver the precise hit between
shield flickers. If the enemy can fire out from a shielded ship, the ship's
shields would be required to flicker like the interrupt on propeller driven
aircraft.
> If I have only two needle beams per ship, each with two fire
correct. My reason for asking that was my idea to have 6 beams on a ship with
one or two firecons. beams that are "linked" to one firecon must fire at the
same firecon.
Hello Mike, I thought the word "ram" was never to be spoken of except in dire
emergencies. Having your Firecontrol sections rendered useless would not make
for "dire circumstances" unless the battle were for a major objective
- such as keeping the homeworld safe...
I could just picture the first officer of the ship saying "sir, I refuse to
pass on an illegal order..."
Hal
> On Wed, 4 Dec 1996, Mike Miserendino wrote:
> Hal wrote:
Now,
> >further suppose that you get lucky, and you knock out all three
> Hello Mike,
Hal,
I mentioned ramming as a joke( -> ;) ). We usually do not condone using
the ramming option unless it is part of that race's fighting style or as you
mentioned a dire situation was at hand.
Hello people:)
Ok if I have a ship with 2 needle beams on it, do I need 2 fire cons if I want
to fire them both at the same system on the target ship?
Ta
> Hello people :)
To fire both at the same target system, no. At separate systems, yes.
Hi Guys,
I'm new to the list so please bear with me if this has been covered before. I
have a few questions concerning needle beams. * I remember reading somewhere
that they can only be used on surface
targets such as weapon turrets and engines. Is this truly the case, or am I
imagining this? What about fire controls, screens, FTL drives, etc? Are they
considered internal structures and thus immune to needle beam fire? * If a
needle beam misses it's designated target, but still causes damage (rolled a
5) does this damage go against armor or directly to hull? Thanks in advance.
Best Regards,
> I remember reading somewhere that they can only be used on surface
Are they considered internal structures and thus immune to needle beam fire?
The rule refers to internal criticals IE the reactor, life support, and
bridge. All other systems are fair game AFAIK. This means that firecontrols,
screens, FTL drives etc can be knocked out.
> If a needle beam misses it's designated target, but still causes
Directly to the hull.
You know, I think we're ALL Bozo's on this bus...
Is this the Dakota Bob Yeager?
The_Beast
Nope. Twinsburg, Ohio. Every now and then I run into someone who gets the
Firesign reference. It's even on my license plate.
Thanks to Sylvester my needle beam questions were answered.
> At 11:13 PM 12/29/03, you wrote:
> You know, I think we're ALL Bozo's on this bus...
Best Regards,