Near-Topic: G forces

Just checking some numbers - can anyone tell me how many G's the Human
body
can stand, and can anyone theorize/postulate how much that number might
be upped with any future tech that can help us (ie how many WILL we be able to
withstand in the timesetting of a FT/DSII universe)?

2B^2

2B^2:
> Just checking some numbers - can anyone tell me how many G's the Human

Depends on position, what's supporting them, and whether you want them to do
anything or just survive. IIRC (big "if" there), you might expect to function
with ~6 gees in a sitting position, 10g lying down, and survive but not
function at quite a bit higher...at least 20, maybe
30-40?  (definitely a "don't try this at home").  It also depends on how
long the acceleration is lasting--20g for 1/100 second is harmless
compared to 5 gee all day.

laserlight:

> >Just checking some numbers - can anyone tell me how many G's the

How about for 10-30 minutes?

> On Tue, Feb 05, 2002 at 09:28:07AM -0800, Brian Bilderback wrote:

FB1 has some "colour" information at the back of the book suggesting that all
warships are fitted with fairly hefty acceleration compensators.

Eyes in (IE G force pushes the eyes in) you can take approx 40 for short
duration pulse (milliseconds) to operate about 5 is the upper limit without
any support.  Sitting/reclining you can get to about 9 with G suit and
hook maneuver (I.e. grunting like crazy to keep your blood pressure up). This
will only sustain you for short periods. (Think turning fight in fighter
jet).

Magic

[quoted original message omitted]

Thanks to both of you. The reason I'm asking is because I'm a big fan of
jump/spacefold type FTL travel PSB.  I was trying to do the math for how

long it would take to accelerate to C if a ship kept withing
human-tolerable
G's (I know, there's more to acceleration to C than that, but it gives a rough
guesstimate). LOOOOONG time.....

2B^2

> From: "Bob Makowsky" <rmakowsky@yahoo.com>
This
> will only sustain you for short periods. (Think turning fight in
(definitely
> a "don't try this at home"). It also depends on how long the

> Roger Burton West wrote:

> >Just checking some numbers - can anyone tell me how many G's the

Once I have FB1, I'll look into that. In the meantime, I still prefer
Fold/Jump PSB to true acceleration.

2B^2

[quoted original message omitted]

> On 5-Feb-02 at 13:39, Brian Bilderback (bbilderback@hotmail.com) wrote:

> Fold/Jump PSB to true acceleration.

I've never quite understood the whole "enter a fold at high speed" thing. I'm
looking outside and sitting still. Of course the earth is going around the sun
at high speed. The sun is going around the galactic core at even higher speed.
The Milky Way is moving away from distant galaxies at near light speed. It's
all relative.

Personally, for gaming purposes I like jump points.

[quoted original message omitted]

> Roger Books wrote:

> > > >Just checking some numbers - can anyone tell me how many G's the

> might

I never mentioned entering a fold at high speed, Fold jump was meant to
represent either fold OR Jump. I was thinking more of the "Create your own
fold/wormhole/whaterver".

> thing. I'm looking outside and sitting still. Of course the

Fold, Jump point, what have you, I still prefer this method to the "Actually
going really fast in normal space." FTL PSB.

2B^2

> Personally, for gaming purposes I like jump points.

Well if we are getting personal I quite like the idea of no FTL travel what so
ever. I know to an extent it ruins the idea of dramatic engagements in space.

But I like to explore the ideas of exactly how inter-galactic
wars could take place under such conditions or whether combats would only ever
take place around planets or space stations.

Take even a small space (relatively speaking). Say an Earth v Mars conflict
with no FTL capability.

Chances are it would end up like the Battle of Trafalgar. Better part of a
year sailing around before the fleets meet. Then all hell breaks loose for
several hours.

> On 5-Feb-02 at 13:57, Brian Bilderback (bbilderback@hotmail.com) wrote:

> Fold, Jump point, what have you, I still prefer this method to the

Gotcha. I like jump points with a large random factor as to where you come
out. It allows for defending fleets without making huge kills when the ships
first come out of jump. Of course you could be really unlucky...

> KH.Ranitzsch Wrote:

> > Thanks to both of you. The reason I'm asking is because I'm a big

> Actually to reach C : an infinite amount of time.

Which even more strongly supports the jump style FTL travel. It's only
important to me for flavor, but I'm all about game flavor.

2B^2

> Roger Books wrote:

Have you a random table?

2B^2

> On 5-Feb-02 at 14:12, Brian Bilderback (bbilderback@hotmail.com) wrote:

We haven't gone to that level yet. We are just using it as PSB for deep space
battles.

It would be pretty easy though. Roll d1000, you start out that many inches
away.

I would go with about 2g as tolerable for "high g routine". Mostly lying
around in acceleration couches using screens/voice activated or side
stick mounted controls. You are not going to have folks running around even in
2g. Slow walking and lost more sprains strains and breaks.

Bob

[quoted original message omitted]

Interesting comments on G forces in these two stories. Hope some prove
helpful.

http://www.dallasnews.com/texasliving/stories/gforces_04liv.ART.5ec14.ht
ml

http://www.dallasnews.com/texasliving/stories/coaster_04liv.ART.59c32.ht
ml

As an aside, I remember a cartoon from my youth, "Battle Between the Planets,"
I think was the name, featuring G Force with their ship, the Phoenix. Mark,
Princess, Jason... that's all I can remember. Oh yeah, there was a monkey too,
right?

> --- Bob Makowsky <rmakowsky@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Feb 05, 2002 at 11:44:08AM -0800, Kevin Balentine wrote:

"Battle of the Planets" AKA "Science Ninja Team Gatchaman".

See http://www.chronicsite.com/gatchaman/ for more than you ever wanted
to know about this...

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> >As an aside, I remember a cartoon from my youth,

Lots of make-up wearing bad guys in flared trousers if I remember
rightly.

As other people have said, it's all a matter of what you want the person doing
under G.

During WWII, fighter pilots would black out under 5 or 6 G's. (No G suit,
upright seating)
Modern pilots with G-suits and well-design aircraft can remain in
control
under up to 9-10 G's.
A human body can survive a lot more, but the person loses consciousness.

I certainly wouldn't think a human would want sustained G's of greater than 3
G's if you want it for a long period (possibly hours), and probably less than
2 if you want it for extended periods (days, weeks).

Bill

"Brian Bilderback"

<bbilderback@hotmail.com> To:
gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
Sent by: cc:

                    owner-gzg-l@lists.CSUA.Be       Subject:
Near-Topic:  G forces
rkeley.EDU

                    02/05/02 11:28 AM

                    Please respond to gzg-l

Just checking some numbers - can anyone tell me how many G's the Human
body
can stand, and can anyone theorize/postulate how much that number might
be upped with any future tech that can help us (ie how many WILL we be able to
withstand in the timesetting of a FT/DSII universe)?

2B^2

> Roger Burton West Wrote:

> On Tue, Feb 05, 2002 at 11:44:08AM -0800, Kevin Balentine wrote:

Back on the topic of G's and C and space combat, a friend of mine once
recommended a book titled "Forever War." Has anyone read it, and can they tell
me who the author was?

2B^2

> On Tue, Feb 05, 2002 at 12:27:17PM -0800, Brian Bilderback wrote:

> Back on the topic of G's and C and space combat, a friend of mine once

Joe Haldeman; it's basically "Vietnam in space" with some tweaks to make it a
bit more interesting (mostly, extremes of time dilation so that the troops
come home a long time after they'd expected to). Not one of my favourites,
though a lot of other people think it's wonderful.

Joe Haldeman. It's Starship Troopers updated from a Vietnam veteran's
perspective His "War Year" is a terrific novel, and features combat
engineers -  and help's explain some of Mr Atkinson's world view given
what the engys go through.

On the topic of Gs, starships maneuver close to lightspeed at very high
accelerations. Crew and troops are put into fluid-filled acceleration
tanks, and there are also some implants for high-g adaption and, iirc a
blood replacement treatment to allow the human body to survive dozens of

g's for days. If everything works.

> Brian Bilderback wrote:

> Roger Burton West Wrote:

> recommended a book titled "Forever War." Has anyone read it, and can

> Brian Bilderback wrote:

> Just checking some numbers - can anyone tell me how many G's the Human

As with all other important questions, it depends. If you are asking if people
can inhabit high g worlds, there is no data. Fighter pilots are trained to
endure short periods of about 13 g's. Murphy coined his law after a failed
experiment to measure effects of short duration, hard accelerations on the
human body-- all sixteen accelerometers were fastened to the harness in
the wrong way, but analysis of the film allowed Murphy to calculate that the
subject endured forty g's. I apologise for not being able to cite a source,
but fifty g's is what they aim for in frontal automotive collisions.

The one high-tech method of managing high g-forces is to encapsulate the
subject in a fluid that is breathable and the exact same density as the
subject. Then, for any insult that does not breach the fluid filled vessel,
the acceleration is replaced with a spike in static pressure. As the body is
mostly an incompressible fluid, spikes in static pressure are mostly harmless

> Brian Bilderback wrote:

> Roger Burton West Wrote:

Joe Haldeman. It is an allegory about the Viet Nam War, particularily about
how the GI's seemed to return to a very different America than the one they
left behind. Although the ships ARE faster than light, transit times are long

Thanks. I might check it out. My friend purported that it had an interesting
view of how space combat might work.

2B^2

> From: Richard and Emily Bell <rlbell@sympatico.ca>

> Roger Burton West wrote:

I'll bet Tuffley has some NTSC Gatchaman bootlegs in a closet somewhere...

From: "Brian Bilderback" <bbilderback@hotmail.com>

> Back on the topic of G's and C and space combat, a friend of mine once

"the Forever War": Superb book, won a Hugo.

In fact,

"Drafted 1967, fought in the Central Highlands of Viet Nam as a combat
engineer with the 4th Division (1/22nd Airmobile Bn.). Purple Heart and
other standard medals"

according to his website

> Alan and Carmel Brain wrote:

Hobby pages
www.angelfire.com/games4/chubbybob

> From: "Brian Bilderback" <bbilderback@hotmail.com>
the Forever War: Joe Haldeman Has to be one of the best scifi books I have
ever read.. Ex vietnam vet who puts all his experience into the book. this is
a real grunts novel. I have read it many times and each reading reveals fresh
insights. A real classic.

> Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 03:25:40 +0000

The Question becomes more what he thinks we'd pay for models of.

In my case I'd like one of the '95 Godphoenix, and probably the Original
Godphoenix but not the Second Version of the Modular, Loonie with Lightsaber
fights from on top version.

I'm not sure what I'd use 25mm of people in Bird Styles for unless I end up
running my threatened Science Ninja Team Kali RPG campaign, but they'd be
cool. The thought of any Tuffly verse faction deploying SPECTRA style uniforms
is a little boggling but they have the advantage of being different.

That leaves the Battlemechanoids of the week, some of which might look fun and
the Red Impulse fighters [Though personally I like Angel interceptors better,
they look like they were designed by the same team as the '95 GP.].

[snip]
> > "Battle of the Planets" AKA "Science Ninja Team Gatchaman".

Sadly, no. Plenty of other weird anime sh*t though....... "Ooh, where did
those naughty tentacles come from.....?"

This is true, it was rocket sled deceleration experiments during the 50s (Eyes
Out Gs). Subject took approx 40 gs eyes out. Complained of chest pain. Later
experiments and autopsies show that the aorta will be ripped free from the
heart at approx 40 gs. Postulation is that his chest pain (separate from chest
straps markings etc) could have been damage to the aorta just short of ripped
free.

I think I have the info at work, will try to get it for tomorrow.

Bob Makowsky

They teach you the strangest things at crash dynamics and survivability school
<G>.

[quoted original message omitted]

The americanized version "Battle of the Planets" has been released on DVD in 2
volumes. I have not purchased it yet, so cannot speak to quality.