From: Thomas Barclay <Thomas.Barclay@s...>
Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 01:55:38 -0500
Subject: NBC Warfare
Welcome Hendrix! Swedes are welcome in the Tuffleyverse....:) You said: I have been pondering this sort of question (how to simulate NBC attacks in games) ever since I spent my military service learning and teaching NBC survival. And, yes, I have worn NBC gear in cold climate (-15 C, about 5 F, I think), though not for more than a couple of hours, thank God! (The pseudo-mustard gas we were supposed to practice decontamination with had frozen.) ** I raised just this point with Beth Fulton today. Chem and bio agents used in cold climates may perform vastly differently - things freeze, reactions happen differently, bugs die, etc. I'm thinking that just might help offset the awful combo of cold weather and NBC gear. I think most of the effects, in SGII, have to do with the scenario construction rather than on-table game mechanics. I'm thinking in lines of starting fatigue and confidence, and how long you can stay suited up before filters and batteries have to be changed, etc. Possibly some older gear would lower the mobility to encumbered (4"), but that seems pretty harsh. My experience is that you can move quite normally, even run short stretches, for at least a couple of hours. ** I'd agree with your comments in general, except the last - your comments about SG2 setup make lots of sense. I found in 30+C temps, when I threw on the charcoal lined chemsuit, hood, gloves, mask, etc then ended up running - it didn't take very long to be a bucket of sweat and have great unhappiness. In fact, if it were moderately chilly, I think that would be an improvement. Heat and NBC gear are bad. NBC gear is a spring/fall type of kit. Winter or Summer bbth disagree based on different problems. > Thomas.Barclay wrote: - ----Snip----- > 3) Combat - combat effectiveness is hampered (at least IME) by > fighting at high protective states - dexterity is shot, you fatigue Why couldn't you have a HUD in a vacc suit, ** You could. But are my neck joints flexible? For example, in today's vacc suit, I doubt I could lie down and fire along the ground or it'd sure be a rotten bugger of a trick. Now, 2183 Vacc Suits may be different.... but there are reasons our suits are bulky that might be hard to change (like the size of the air tanks). If not, maybe only obsolete gear without a HUD or bulky in nature have these penalties. I'd think any visored helmet would do just great, or am I missing something? ** Ever shot through sights through a gas mask? I assume so. But did you do it on a weapon with optics? For me anyway, I found sights (optics) plus a mask equalled less effective and accurate fire. Maybe not significantly so... but somewhat. Assuming we are talking about military gear I would suppose that it is suitable for fighting in (barring administrative fuckups, of course), ** Like ours is today? If people can argue that Basic tech in 2183 is actually today-basic, then we should at least consider that NBC gear and other similar gear might still encumber. Of course, I'm open to the thought it does not. Just wanted to explore options. or at least that the effects are so minimal, and would affect both sides more or less equally, that they can be ignored. (But see Joe Haldemans Forever War for some interestin effects of vacc suit fighting in near absolute zero degrees environment.) ** Hmm, I still think there would be a difference between fighting buttoned up and not, but it is probably admittedly far less than the modern day equivalent. > 4) Morale - no one likes to fight in these states - it beats Absolutely, I really like the Dirtside rules for NBC attacks where _all_ units on the table have to take confidence tests. How about a reaction test to enter a contaminated area? (Are you _really_ sure your mask fits properly?) ** And has the enemy dropped a suit-eating nanite in the area? Hmmm...... > But is should there be penalties for fighting "buttoned up"? Should I would say no, otherwise we'd have to impose penalties on troops in "unpowered" full BA like NSL Panzergrenadiers as well. ** Assumption: Those suits are unpowered. I've seen a number of folk suggest they are partially powered and for my Luftelandesturm, I sort of assume that too. Not fully powered, just partially powered to help compensate for the weight. Otherwise, yes I'd be tempted to penalize them - they get heavy armour... but there ought to be a trade off. Or possibly light troops not adequately equipped should get some penalties, but I think that should be an exception. ** Benefits you mean. At least as far as fatigue, encumberance, and movement go and some parts of fighting. Though mind you the gas attacks or even the bullet attacks if you shuck the armour tend to be far more lethal... My brain starts working on some scenario where soldiers get caught out not expecting chemical warfare and only carrying obsolete protection gear....hm. But what happens if a vacc suit is punctured? That would naturally depend on what is out there, but in extreme cases perhaps all wounds would be kills. ** I think this is the secret to hostile environments. Every hit is a black skull. And how to simulate a chemical attack? A reaction test for each figure caught in it, ** Assuming they even detected it.... if you were buttoned up you might not even know. (Now yes, if you were careful and watched your detectors or chemical indicators, you'd know....). Though dropping chem that would fool the sensors might be a nasty trick too. Real stuff that won't be detectable or fake stuff that is and forces everyone to a high MOPP level... shift down the die if not at all prepered (you can usually fit at least two coke or beer cans where your gas mask should be), ** Or better yet, chuck the damn carrier and get rid of one more piece of kit. Plus if we talk about the future, figure gas mask = useless. I think they'd have gone to skin absorbed agents where any exposure is lethal. MAKE your enemy use the full MOPP suit if you're going to play that game. Doubly true if he only has gas masks. shift down one step if tired or exhausted, shift up two steps if in full BA? What happens if you miss, automatically dead if the units next action is not a reorganize (remember to take the right autoinjector)? I'm just rambling here, hope that's ok. ** My ideas: (Similarly rambling) 1) Both sides fighting high MOPP level: ignore it, everyone suffers equally as far as encumberance, effects, etc. If attacked with Chem weapons, roll quality of MOPP kit vs qualty of agent. If agent wins, but does not double the defence die, wound results. Otherwise, death. If the unit is unprepared, roll D4 for defender. Both sides may start Fatigued if this fight has been going on for a while. If an unprepared unit is attacked, after attack resolution, it is considered prepared. Similarly, if you enter a contaminated area, consider this a chemical attack with a one negative die shift in effectiveness. This method also represents the presence of active nanites or whatever in chemical attacks such that higher quality chem attacks have a likelikhood of compromising protection that would normally totally thwart chem attacks. 2) One side fighting high MOPP, the other lightly equipped or unequipped: Give the un-MOPPed guys an extra die shift in their movement rate - relatively speaking, they'll be more spry. Have them fatigue slower. (This assumes you still think fighting like this is not a good thing - if you think you have suits that can selectively breathe, that are light, and masks that don't impede your ability to shoot at all then by all means apply no penalties other than the tendency for the unequipped side to die from chemical attacks).