> On Mon, 21 Feb 2000, Thomas.Barclay wrote:
Fighting the elements should be trivial to an advanced society. Unless they're
getting tricky and fighting in the middle of a lava field as astroids are
raining down on them, or they're dueling in the atmosphere of a gas giant.
Apply whatever drawbacks to armor you think appropriate to the scenario. One
might be that the more hostile the environment, the less protection it
provides as the likelyhood of enemys disrupting environmental protection
increases. Although it would be easier in that case to simply increase the
effect roll on all damage, or count wounded as killed.
> But is should there be penalties for fighting "buttoned up"? Should
I'd assume vacc suits are like gortex today, innocous. If you don't, apply
whatever penalty you think they should have.
Hi:
Quick thought for SG2: How does one quantify the difference between an
unprotected (and unencumbered) trooper in SG2 and one who is "protected"? This
question probably really covers: 1) body armour 2) NBC gear 3) Harsh Climate
Clothing 4) Vacc Suits
I omit PA because it is closer to a powered small vehicle than normal
clothing.
I'm imagining each of these types of kit impedes the "normal" function of an
infantryman. Specifically, the areas these types of kit could impact:
1) Endurance - limited air supplies (vacc suits), heavy kit to
lug (armour, NBC gear, vacc suits), heating effects (NBC gear, body armour,
harsh climate clothing in a not-so cold climate) - perspiring, heat
exhuastion etc.
2) Movement - weighty or bulky kit could easily impede the rate
of normal movement. bulky kit will reduce dexterity for moving through close
terrain such as bush or swamp.
3) Combat - combat effectiveness is hampered (at least IME) by
fighting at high protective states - dexterity is shot, you fatigue
easier, tis hard to use optics with some helmets, most masks, and I'm sure a
vacc suit barring an internal HUD. And most of these kit items may make taking
up some firing postures more difficult or lead to a requirement to be more
exposed (heck, it might be impossible to fire prone in a vacc suit period).
4) Morale - no one likes to fight in these states - it beats
being dead, but no one likes it. Especially if it goes on for a while (heck,
the decontam procedure for taking a visit to the loo is pretty frustrating in
and of itself).
Now, some of the mechanisms to deal with this are already inherent in the
game: Fatigue and Exhaustion (sooner onset?) Light vs. Normal infantry (assume
normal has BA)
But is should there be penalties for fighting "buttoned up"? Should vacc suit
users suffer penalties to ranged fire? movement? Any suggestions in these
areas would probably be of some interest to discuss.
Hello everybody,
this is my first post here, after having been lurking a little while. (And,
yes, another one from sweden.)
I have been pondering this sort of question (how to simulate NBC attacks in
games) ever since I spent my military service learning and teaching NBC
survival. And, yes, I have worn NBC gear in cold climate (-15 C, about 5
F, I think), though not for more than a couple of hours, thank God! (The
pseudo-mustard gas we were supposed to practice decontamination with had
frozen.)
I think most of the effects, in SGII, have to do with the scenario
construction
rather than on-table game mechanics. I'm thinking in lines of starting
fatigue and confidence, and how long you can stay suited up before filters and
batteries have to be changed, etc. Possibly some older gear would lower the
mobility to encumbered (4"), but that seems pretty harsh. My experience is
that you can move quite normally, even run short stretches, for at least a
couple of hours.
> Thomas.Barclay wrote:
----Snip-----
> 3) Combat - combat effectiveness is hampered (at least IME) by
Why couldn't you have a HUD in a vacc suit, I'd think any visored helmet would
do just great, or am I missing something? Assuming we are talking about
military gear I would suppose that it is suitable for fighting in (barring
administrative fuckups, of course), or at least that the effects are so
minimal, and would affect both sides more or less equally, that they can be
ignored. (But see Joe Haldemans Forever War for some interestin effects of
vacc suit fighting in near absolute zero degrees environment.)
> 4) Morale - no one likes to fight in these states - it beats
Absolutely, I really like the Dirtside rules for NBC attacks where _all_
units on the table have to take confidence tests. How about a reaction test to
enter a
contaminated area? (Are you _really_ sure your mask fits properly?)
> But is should there be penalties for fighting "buttoned up"? Should
I would say no, otherwise we'd have to impose penalties on troops in
"unpowered" full BA like NSL Panzergrenadiers as well. Or possibly light
troops not adequately equipped should get some penalties, but I think that
should be an exception. My brain starts working on some scenario where
soldiers get caught out not expecting chemical warfare and only carrying
obsolete protection
gear....hm.
But what happens if a vacc suit is punctured? That would naturally depend on
what is out there, but in extreme cases perhaps all wounds would be kills. And
how to simulate a chemical attack? A reaction test for each figure caught in
it, shift down the die if not at all prepered (you can usually fit at least
two coke or beer cans where your gas mask should be), shift down one step if
tired or exhausted, shift up two steps if in full BA? What happens if you
miss, automatically dead if the units next action is not a reorganize
(remember to take the right autoinjector)? I'm just rambling here, hope that's
ok.
Well, just some thoughts....
I would suggest that part of the gear issued/worn would depend on the
circumstance.
Body Armor: Would only be worn if combat is expected. But this would probably
be part of standard issued combat uniforms.
NBC Gear: If going into an exposed area or against a enemy that is know to use
(or suspected to use) NBC agents, NBC gear would be worn. It is also a
possibility that Light Power Armor would be issued instead of NBC suits in
this situation. Otherwise, it would be packed/stowed (along with
decontamination agents).
Harsh Climate Clothing: Again, if harsh environmental conditions exitst (or ar
likely), everyone would be issued this gear. Again, if REALY harsh, Light PA
may be issued.
Vac Suits: I immagine that the standard issued is now really Light Power
Armor. Vac Suits are as bulky and restrictive as PA, so there is little
benefit in choosing them over PA (cost?). Only Emergency Suits would not be
PA.
> From my comments, you will probably guess that I think that PA will be
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Brian Bell bkb@beol.net
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> -----Original Message-----
[snip]
> But is should there be penalties for fighting "buttoned up"? Should