My Life Story, Philosophy of Design, Colonization Patterns, and other trivia, was Re: DS: Walkers

7 posts ยท Feb 8 2003 to Feb 18 2003

From: John Atkinson <johnmatkinson@y...>

Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 16:45:17 -0800 (PST)

Subject: My Life Story, Philosophy of Design, Colonization Patterns, and other trivia, was Re: DS: Walkers

--- Brian Bilderback <greywanderer987@yahoo.com>
wrote:

> > My favorite was a personal design--50 tons, 1

That's one of the highest compliments I've had in a long time. There was a Mk
2 that added a pair of MGs
and a 1/2 ton of ammo.  :)

> > There's a fine line to walk here. I enjoy

Nah... it's upbringing. I grew up on the old US Army FMs on the Soviet Army.
Most interesting books
in the house.  My Dad gave me an old map-and-chit SPI
game called Mechwar '77. Each marker was a platoon. I'd play solitaire games
by putting together a Russian attack (MRR, typically) and running the attack
by the book. I'd run a US BN and try to stop it. Eventually
got pretty decent.  I started this when I was 8-9(?).
Spend 16 years on anything and you get good.

RL Army experience... just is the difference between classroom theory and
practical exercises. I just get to do my PEs down at the Stargrunt level and
below.
:)

> take a walker. Fighting on the Olympic peninsula of

Maybe--although I still like Grav.

> possible variation on the theme. Tomb and I had a

Unless... My perception of GZGverse is that you have relatively small
professional armies. A division or at most a Corps will defend a planet. Maybe
a regiment. Therefor they need to be versatile and operate all over the
planet. What good is the 14th Mechanized Mountain Batallion (Combat Walker) if
the plan is to secure an area the size and terrain variety of Europe with a
brigade? Armies are going to have to
focus on high-payoff targets, and most of 'em aren't
in crap terrain that these walkers are theoretically good at. Even if they
are, what good does it do to hold onto your absurdium mines in the mountains
of
Ratholeistan if I have secured all the food-producing
areas?

Now, the argument might be for securing urban areas. My thoughts on the
urbanization of space:

1)Most colonies, having unlimited space and limited heavy construction assets,
will build out rather than
up.  2-3 story buildings at most, not 10-20.
2)Large urban areas depend on good food distribution networks, which won't
really be practical until colonies mature somewhat. Obviously some have.
3)Given the limited nature of ground combat (imposed by shipping requirements)
no one has the assets to
take a defended city.  That's resource intensive--a
militia brigade could tie up a division or more for weeks.
4)Urban areas will represent difficult-to-replace
transportation hubs, probably the main spaceports, and what limited heavy
manufacturing assets exist
on-planet.  As such they are going to be practically
irreplacable and High Command will NOT take lightly
the sack of a city--and any attack on a defended city
will resemble a medieval sack in devastation if not intent.

This is simillar to the discussions I've had re: orbital bombardment. In
short, I consider it likely that colonies fall into a few categories:

1)Too heavily developed to take easily, and hence rarely the targets of
offensives (ie, Neu Salzburg, Nova Moskva, New Avalon, New Constantinople).
2)Valuable prizes fought over in a style of warfare
reminiscent of medieval condotta--very careful not to
damage the prize, fairly civilized rules of warfare. 3)Crappy dirtballs
inhabited by the unwanted of Earth, fought over in dirty little wars like
Epsilon Ceti.

As such, mass high-tech armies just aren't in the
picture, which rules out the need for specialized formations with complex gear
only good for a handful of places and times.

From: Brian Bilderback <bbilderback@h...>

Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 17:08:08 -0800 (PST)

Subject: Re: My Life Story, Philosophy of Design, Colonization Patterns, and other trivia, was Re: DS: Walkers

> --- John Atkinson <johnmatkinson@yahoo.com> wrote:

> > Elegant.

And was intended as such. You've influenced my thoughts on a lot of different
vehicles, but one area I already had an opinion I still hold was this: the
more direct and to the point a weapon is, the more apt I am to mount it on my
MBT's. Even more so in DSII than in Battletech. But in my Btech days I was a
gauss fanatic. Nothing says it quite like 15 points of damage from long range.
I'd even manouver specifically to give my opponent partial cover, because the
decrease in chance of hitting wasn't as big a deal as the increase in chance
that an actual hit would pop his head like a watermelon.

There was a Mk 2 that added a pair of
> MGs

I'm assuming for those times you faced infantry?

I started this when I was
> 8-9(?).

I should say....

> RL Army experience. . . just is the difference

LOL

> > take a walker. Fighting on the Olympic peninsula

I love grav. And given certain backgrounds, with varying abilities for grav, I
like it even more. A lot of it depends on certain assumptions you make about
what and where a grav vehicle can and can't
do/go.  We don't yet know IRL which assumptions are
correct, so we have to take one set, accept them, and apply them to the game.
which set is personal taste, and will affect how you view grav.

> Unless. . . My perception of GZGverse

Ah, see, there's where our ability to address each other's points of view is
going to deteriorate. I don't play in the GZGverse, at least not in the
tuffleyverse, and a lot of things are different, politically as well as
technologically, which make
certain strategic axioms non-interchangeable (though
tactics remain the same or similar).

is that you
> have

Part of the difference is that in my personal setting, conflicts on earth
itself are still fairly common. Makes a huge difference.

> My thoughts on the urbanization of space:

> As such, mass high-tech armies just aren't in the

All of your points are well-taken, and extremely valid
in the context of conflicts on colonies. Back home here on earth, or on highly
inhabited, balkanized worlds (depending on how far along in colonization you
set things), maybe not so much....

From: John Atkinson <johnmatkinson@y...>

Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 11:11:53 -0800 (PST)

Subject: Re: My Life Story, Philosophy of Design, Colonization Patterns, and other trivia, was Re: DS: Walkers

--- Brian Bilderback <greywanderer987@yahoo.com>
wrote:

> > Maybe--although I still like Grav.

IMU, Grav is capable of flying high in travel mode, but you fight on the deck
because up high is
scary--people can see you and you ain't aerodynamic
enough to flitter around at high speeds like the VTOL crowd.

> > Unless. . . My perception of GZGverse

Verra much true. And my universe is a direct reflection of the types of games
I like to play...

From: Morton Chalom <telson@a...>

Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 22:18:52 -0500

Subject: Re: My Life Story, Philosophy of Design, Colonization Patterns, and other trivia, was Re: DS: Walkers

About a week ago, John Atkinson said:

> I grew up on the old US Army FMs on the

Does anyone know if these are available for download?

I can find a number of US Army FMs, but haven't found one on the Soviet Army
(current or from a few years ago).

Thanks.

From: Mike Hillsgrove <mikeah@c...>

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 11:56:11 -0500

Subject: Re: My Life Story, Philosophy of Design, Colonization Patterns, and other trivia, was Re: DS: Walkers

I read a good number of them. They were classified CONFIDENTIAL or SECRET. Not
likely to find then in a PDF format anywhere.

> Does anyone know if these are available for download?

From: Laserlight <laserlight@q...>

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 12:04:54 -0500

Subject: Re: My Life Story, Philosophy of Design, Colonization Patterns, and other trivia, was Re: DS: Walkers

> Does anyone know if these [field manuals on the Soviet Army] are

You're probably looking for something like FM100-2, but it's not in the
Army on-line library that I can find (ie it's not there-but-locked; it's
just not there).

From: Joe Ross <ft4breedn@h...>

Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 02:35:20 +0000

Subject: Re: My Life Story, Philosophy of Design, Colonization Patterns, and other trivia, was Re: DS: Walkers

I have a bucket load (actually DVD load) of them, but no, no Soviet..

> About a week ago, John Atkinson said:

> Army (current or from a few years ago).