Someone very knowledgeable (someone's wife?) was discoursing in a most
interesting fashion on MPs. I've known some MPs (Canadian) and they did
(sadly) remind me of some of the worse examples of the Law Enforcement breed.
(I worked with the RCMP extensively.... most of them get Orange or Red
chits!).
Anyway, what I wanted someone to clarify for me is: What subtasks comprise the
LEA (Law Enforcement Activity) part of the job? What subtasks comprise the
"Combat" part of the job?
I'm a bit vague on what combat MP postings involve. I get the impression it
includes traffic direction during large troop movements, securing rear areas
and key points, hunting for enemy deep penetration raiders, etc.
Would it be sensible in a future military to have MP functions broken out into
"Military Police" (Combat MPs) and "Military Investigation and Enforcement
Personel" (LEA and CID types)?
Great stuff, really. I've now been given a number of great scenario ideas for
MPs versus special forces in the rear areas, or prisoner breakouts, or even
the "Battle of the Bulge" style enemy SF imitating MPs idea.
My thanks to those who contribute their domain experience (or that of their
spouses!). This list never ceases to amaze me.
Tomb.
> Friday, January 04, 2002, 2:34:25 AM, Thomas wrote:
TB> Someone very knowledgeable (someone's TB> wife?) was discoursing in a most
interesting TB> fashion on MPs. I've known some MPs TB> (Canadian) and they
did (sadly) remind me of TB> some of the worse examples of the Law TB>
Enforcement breed. (I worked with the RCMP TB> extensively.... most of them
get Orange or Red TB> chits!).
I've never had any experience with Candadian MP's, British MP's though, I
have. Not extensively, but I did notice that when a Brit MP
identified himself to a British ground-pounder, they took notice.
> From what I was told by one of those "blokes", MP isn't an MOS in the
TB> Anyway, what I wanted someone to clarify for TB> me is: TB> What subtasks
comprise the LEA (Law TB> Enforcement Activity) part of the job? TB> What
subtasks comprise the "Combat" part of TB> the job?
LEA MP's are basically just being cops. They go on patrol, they
arrest drunks, they run traffic stops. There are even SWAT-like teams
formed, though the name used has differed depending on who organized it...
Q.uick R.eaction F.orce, S.pecial R.esponse T.eam, etc...
TB> I'm a bit vague on what combat MP postings TB> involve. I get the
impression it includes traffic TB> direction during large troop movements, TB>
securing rear areas and key points, hunting for TB> enemy deep penetration
raiders, etc.
Yup, you got it. Escorting convoys of vehicles, directing traffic at
intersections (confirming that the trucks on it are ours that that our people
are driving them, if necessary).
TB> Would it be sensible in a future military to have TB> MP functions broken
out into "Military Police" TB> (Combat MPs) and "Military Investigation and
TB> Enforcement Personel" (LEA and CID types)?
It seems like it would be sensible. Except the penny-pinchers and
whatnot wouldn't like it. There is also something to be said for the "Of the
troops, for the Troops" unoffical motto of the MP's. By having a combat role,
MP's gain credibility amongst other MOS's instead of being "just cops". While
I was on patrol, I actually had a 222nd Infantry troops back down from a fight
when he learned I was one of the "MP's that go to the field" instead of the
LEA MP's. (My first unit went through three cycles on a platoon level when not
deployed or otherwise tasked out, two weeks each; Training, Support, and Law
Enforcement.
Training was exactly that: Practicing missions, some class-room, most
in the woods firing blanks and getting dirty.
Support: You supported another platoon that was in it's training cycle.
Law Enforcement: You tried to polish your field-destroyed boots into
a spit-shine to look pretty on the road.
It didn't always work that well... deployments, taskings and missions coming
from division, etc. all got in the way. We were extremely proficient in that
unit though. We scared people when we trained and never had serious injuries
in spite of it. When deployed, force commanders would jostle and play their
politics to get us to be the MP's supporting them. We were just that Good.
God, I miss those
days. I'm getting misty-eyed...
To anyone in the 511th MP Company in Ft. Drum NY: Fraggin' Hoo-ah!
But to my 2nd unit, the 212th MP Co in Germany: Bite me! It's your fault I
wasn't a lifer!
TB> Great stuff, really. I've now been given a TB> number of great scenario
ideas for MPs versus TB> special forces in the rear areas, or prisoner TB>
breakouts, or even the "Battle of the Bulge" TB> style enemy SF imitating MPs
idea.
Keep in mind that most of the roles and whatnot discussed so far are
the "all-out-war" roles. In practice, during the humanitarian and
modern limited conflict missions of late, MP's have some of the most visible
and high-profile roles. In Somalia and Haiti, the infantry secured a
base out of which the MP's operated, doing the food-truck escorts or
reconning the operational areas. That was something that really put the sand
in some infantry commander's shorts...
For a while, because the infantry were so "This is our mission." we actually
had our trucks parked on the perimeter of the airstrip at Cape Hatien, Haiti
while the infantry went on patrols and recons piled
into the back of a M-998 (think of a HMMWV (Hum-vee) laid out like a
pickup-truck). That lasted all of five days until a higher-up heard
about that stupidity, then we were back on the roads, doing our job.
TB> My thanks to those who contribute their domain TB> experience (or that of
their spouses!). This list TB> never ceases to amaze me.
> Friday, January 04, 2002, 2:34:25 AM, Thomas wrote:
TB> Someone very knowledgeable (someone's TB> wife?) was discoursing in a most
interesting TB> fashion on MPs. I've known some MPs TB> (Canadian) and they
did (sadly) remind me of TB> some of the worse examples of the Law TB>
Enforcement breed. (I worked with the RCMP TB> extensively.... most of them
get Orange or Red TB> chits!).
I've never had any experience with Candadian MP's, British MP's though, I
have. Not extensively, but I did notice that when a Brit MP
identified himself to a British ground-pounder, they took notice.
> From what I was told by one of those "blokes", MP isn't an MOS in the
TB> Anyway, what I wanted someone to clarify for TB> me is: TB> What subtasks
comprise the LEA (Law TB> Enforcement Activity) part of the job? TB> What
subtasks comprise the "Combat" part of TB> the job?
LEA MP's are basically just being cops. They go on patrol, they
arrest drunks, they run traffic stops. There are even SWAT-like teams
formed, though the name used has differed depending on who organized it...
Q.uick R.eaction F.orce, S.pecial R.esponse T.eam, etc...
TB> I'm a bit vague on what combat MP postings TB> involve. I get the
impression it includes traffic TB> direction during large troop movements, TB>
securing rear areas and key points, hunting for TB> enemy deep penetration
raiders, etc.
Yup, you got it. Escorting convoys of vehicles, directing traffic at
intersections (confirming that the trucks on it are ours that that our people
are driving them, if necessary).
TB> Would it be sensible in a future military to have TB> MP functions broken
out into "Military Police" TB> (Combat MPs) and "Military Investigation and
TB> Enforcement Personel" (LEA and CID types)?
It seems like it would be sensible. Except the penny-pinchers and
whatnot wouldn't like it. There is also something to be said for the "Of the
troops, for the Troops" unoffical motto of the MP's. By having a combat role,
MP's gain credibility amongst other MOS's instead of being "just cops". While
I was on patrol, I actually had a 222nd Infantry troops back down from a fight
when he learned I was one of the "MP's that go to the field" instead of the
LEA MP's. (My first unit went through three cycles on a platoon level when not
deployed or otherwise tasked out, two weeks each; Training, Support, and Law
Enforcement.
Training was exactly that: Practicing missions, some class-room, most
in the woods firing blanks and getting dirty.
Support: You supported another platoon that was in it's training cycle.
Law Enforcement: You tried to polish your field-destroyed boots into
a spit-shine to look pretty on the road.
It didn't always work that well... deployments, taskings and missions coming
from division, etc. all got in the way. We were extremely proficient in that
unit though. We scared people when we trained and never had serious injuries
in spite of it. When deployed, force commanders would jostle and play their
politics to get us to be the MP's supporting them. We were just that Good.
God, I miss those
days. I'm getting misty-eyed...
To anyone in the 511th MP Company in Ft. Drum NY: Fraggin' Hoo-ah!
But to my 2nd unit, the 212th MP Co in Germany: Bite me! It's your fault I
wasn't a lifer!
TB> Great stuff, really. I've now been given a TB> number of great scenario
ideas for MPs versus TB> special forces in the rear areas, or prisoner TB>
breakouts, or even the "Battle of the Bulge" TB> style enemy SF imitating MPs
idea.
Keep in mind that most of the roles and whatnot discussed so far are
the "all-out-war" roles. In practice, during the humanitarian and
modern limited conflict missions of late, MP's have some of the most visible
and high-profile roles. In Somalia and Haiti, the infantry secured a
base out of which the MP's operated, doing the food-truck escorts or
reconning the operational areas. That was something that really put the sand
in some infantry commander's shorts...
For a while, because the infantry were so "This is our mission." we actually
had our trucks parked on the perimeter of the airstrip at Cape Hatien, Haiti
while the infantry went on patrols and recons piled
into the back of a M-998 (think of a HMMWV (Hum-vee) laid out like a
pickup-truck). That lasted all of five days until a higher-up heard
about that stupidity, then we were back on the roads, doing our job.
TB> My thanks to those who contribute their domain TB> experience (or that of
their spouses!). This list TB> never ceases to amaze me.
On Fri, 4 Jan 2002 02:34:25 -0500 "Thomas Barclay"
<kaladorn@fox.nstn.ca> writes: <snip>
> Would it be sensible in a future military to have
You are describing what I experienced from 1971-1978 in the USAF _ we
had
"Air Police" - basically military police backing up the "Security
Police"
- the infamous 'rivet counters' guards of the SAC aircraft at out ATC
base... 1)I can't say it was that divided AF wide because we had SAC as a
tenant unit and they always did things the "SAC" way (I will *not* tell
all those old jibes/jokes...) and 2) It was Conus - don't know how they
operated a)Overseas and b)Vietnam specifically.
As for OSI types (Office of Special Investigations - well nobody ion the
hospital liked dealing with them anytime so I have no knowledge at all other
then they existed and they had a bad relationship with our Squadron... Not all
their fault I assure you.
<snip>
Prisoner breakout attempts (like have happened in recent weeks in Pakistan and
Afghanistan) would be opponent dependent I expect...
Gracias,
In a message dated 04/01/02 14:23:52 GMT Standard Time,
> flakmagnet72@yahoo.com writes:
> I've never had any experience with Candadian MP's, British MP's
The BBC did a documentary series on MP's a couple of years ago. In British
army I believe they are referred to as redcaps. From memory I think they have
to transfer in after serving with some other regiment. They do not do the
standing outside the palace like statue thing. That is the job of one of the
guards regiments, Irish Scots Welsh, etc. The other thing I sort of remember
is their motto is something like "first in last out".
John L
> Someone very knowledgeable (someone's
The wife part describes me. I'm not so sure about the knowledgeable part
-
I've been out of the service for a bit these days.
> Anyway, what I wanted someone to clarify for
LEA - think civilian police.
> I'm a bit vague on what combat MP postings
Add in convoy security, certain anti-terrorism functions, securing
forward
areas, POW handling (any 800-series unit), personal security for
visiting VIPs, rounding up reporters that are trying to get places they don't
belong, augmenting light infantry units, road marking, riot control, MOUT
operations, and any other task that the local general happens to decide would
be really cool if handled by the MP's.
> Would it be sensible in a future military to have
<sigh> Don't we all wish. It *should* be done this way. It just isn't.
Of course, if you did this, you'd have an even bigger shortage of 95B's
(MP's). They almost *all* want to be LEA or CID.
Kiara, aka Somebody's Spouse
> It seems like it would be sensible. Except the penny-pinchers and
My platoon used to hate me when I took the trucks away and decided we were
going to train without them for awhile...
> Support: You supported another platoon that was in it's training
Which means you get absolutely nothing done, because you'll probably lose half
your troops to LEA work, and the other half will be painting stuff for the
1SG. If you're lucky, you might get your vehicles PMCS'd properly.
> Law Enforcement: You tried to polish your field-destroyed boots into
<chuckle> Nah - you spend the extra cash and buy another pair of boots.
<grin> Trying to do that *once* will cure you of it - or should have!
<grin>
> To anyone in the 511th MP Company in Ft. Drum NY: Fraggin' Hoo-ah!
I believe the 511th was the Ft. Drum unit deployed to Panama when I was
there. If so, I can certainly agree - good unit.
> But to my 2nd unit, the 212th MP Co in Germany: Bite me! It's your
Hey - at least you changed units. I watched mine go to hell with a
change of CO. <grump>
> Keep in mind that most of the roles and whatnot discussed so far are
Gives a new definition to the term "police action".
Kiara
On Fri, 4 Jan 2002 20:22:22 -0600
> "David Rodemaker" <dar@horusinc.com> wrote:
+++SNIP+++
> >
wiMPs... *grin* That never bothered me, unless my underwear got wet... For
some reason that will just ruin my day.
> >
*Points to nose* Ding!
> > Law Enforcement: You tried to polish your field-destroyed boots
Shush... Civvies are supposed to thing troops are too poor to have a nice pair
of boots... Otherwise they'll never let congress give 'em raises... I can
honestly say that in my six years I never had a set of boots JUST for road
duty. I did have one pair that never saw the woods, but I wore them for other
garrison duties as well as road duty.
> > To anyone in the 511th MP Company in Ft. Drum NY: Fraggin' Hoo-ah!
Yup, that's them. the 511th is the only unit out of Ft. Drum that's a FORSCOM
unit, thus it's the only MP unit that rotates down to Panama.
> > But to my 2nd unit, the 212th MP Co in Germany: Bite me! It's your
That sucks, if you're full of pride in the unit, it's almost like watching a
friend die when that happens. Really, really disturbing.