Movement thoughts for FMA from Mike - my reply

2 posts · Aug 8 1999 to Aug 9 1999

From: Thomas Barclay <Thomas.Barclay@s...>

Date: Sat, 7 Aug 1999 22:18:04 -0400

Subject: Movement thoughts for FMA from Mike - my reply

Now tell me I've missed something....

Cheers, Mike Elliott

** I think so. Let me take it up as a reply to your post.

------------------------------

To summarise, a "standard" movement action is a fixed distance (typically 8"
for an average figure). A combat move is a doubled die (e.g. D8 x 2 for a
typical trooper) or 2Dn depending on your perference. Dn x 2 is the method
used in SG2.

** First: Standard move action (1 action): 6". Standard Combat Move Action:
d6x2". Two actions per activation. Average on combat move is 7", so on average
you will move farther than a normal move. Also, you will
certainly have a greater potential - 24" if you do two combat moves
(unlikely but possible). So there is a quantitative difference.

Now in game terms, the player decides to activate Pvt Parts. The aim is to get
the figure across to the cover offered by the skip. OK let's make a combat
move. Roll a D8 and double it. Damn! Rolled a 3. That means he moves 6" and is
now stuck in the middle of the street. He ends his activation and is now prime
target no. 1 for every bad guy on the table.

** No, it doesn't end his activation. He executes his second action as a
movement and rolls 2d6 again. But that's okay... if he sucks there, yes he
COULD be stuck out. This is the point of combat movement: You can get stuck
out. More to follow.

Hold on, lets run that again. The player decides to activate Pvt Parts. The
aim is to get the figure across to the cover offered by the skip. Lets take 2
normal move actions. That gives me a maximum move of 16". No problem, the skip
is only 11" away. Pvt Parts dashes across the street to the cover of the skip.
The ONLY bad guys who can shoot at him are those who are either on Overwatch
or any figure that has not yet activated and fires using Reaction Fire. In
other words, its a good idea to wait until most opposing figures have
activated before dashing across the street.

** Well, if you interpret (as some do) some of the stuff in the rulebook, you
could conclude that as he is double moving, anyone who has not activated can
actually fire at him in the middle of a full move in view of their unit. But
that is another point.

Well, I know which way I'd do it! The only advantage to the combat move method
is that if successful you get to fire with your second action. You pays yer
money and you takes your choice....

** You've hit one thing on the head. The combat move is a risk. It represents
getting from A to B and the vagarities involved. It could move you further
than a normal move (up to double) or it could move you pretty near nowhere.

If you think about it then, the "dash across the street" problem has just gone
away.

** It isn't meant to! The problem with a deterministic set 6" move is *IT
DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY* (afaics) in the world outside of games. Pvt. Parts
could twist his ankle, or slip and need to getup, or a stray shot (these
things don't happen in waves in the *reality* of the game, as Jon T points
out, but rather the turns mask the true
continous nature of the combat - there are no pauses...just because
someone has fired...) forced him to duck and momentarily not finish his
sprint. Or he planned to go and his webgear came loose when he got
up to run, so he had to adjust it while staggering about, etc. etc. -
Or his judgement of the distance and his timing was FUBAR. Real combat doesn't
gift us with perfect distance measure, or perfect timing. Sometimes we think
we can make a rush and can't (I've seen this way to often in paintball and
that is with innacurate weapons and low velocities and RoF).

** Of course, the wise gamer (someone who should IMHO (only my own!) be
playing chess or bridge since they have set rules and clear cut moves) says
"But I can move 6 inches! Why take the risk of a combat
move!" - The answer is because in combat your soldier has *NOT* got
that choice - his move is a combat move! He won't *saunter* from a to
B, nor will he march. He might dash (roll a combat move, hope for a
six to let him move 12" in one move to avoid mid-move fire!) or he
might do the "Up-he-sees-me-down" thing or some combination of
dashing, ducking, and even rolling around dodging bullets... assuming he
doesn't trip or stagger. But the time it takes him to get from A to B is a
range of possible values. Boy, would most of the Warrant Officers in any
military I've encountered just love it if their whole squads would move
together, or even if any one individual would snap to an order all the time
without fail. But combat is by its nature stressful, random, and isn't turn
based. So we place it into a turn based abstraction of a game with small lead
men who don't panic, hyperventillate, zone out, or trip or otherwise do dumb
ass stuff that is the natural province of men being shot at.... and so we try,
by
whatever method, to preserve the non-deterministic feel of combat. The
combat move should (most likely) be the only form of movement once combat has
been initiated. There are varieties of how it is executed
(the dash from cover to cover, the A2C up-run-down, the combat crawl,
the Airborne Shuffle, whatever), but it is very rarely deterministic.

** Now, YMMV. But I like Jon's idea of making the game fraught with chaos and
random factors. It keeps us from *knowing* that the other
player has all activated (boy would i love that knowledge in RL - make
street fighting much safer!), from *knowing* Pvt. Parts can make the run to
the skip, and from knowing a bunch of other stuff and letting
that make the game a far more "gamer-ish" (not badmouthing gamers
here - but not good in a game with a pretense and atmosphere of
reality) feel by reducing risk.

** And, for FMA Skirmish, I'll close this reply back by saying: A
squad can handle two forms of movement - that is an abstraction of the
milling about of four to ten guys... whereas an individual has several
quite distinct movement types - a cautious advance using bounding or
A2C style, marching in column (not used in combat since they invented the
rifled musket and for good reason), jogging in column, crawling, or madly
sprinting from one street corner to the next. These are all distinct from one
another an are significant (or probably should be) for a game that addresses
the options of the individual. In some senses, an individual has more choices
than an SG2 squad. But I don't believe the answer is to not reflect the nature
of combat or the
nature of the range of individual choices - rather it is to have
simple, easily memorable mechanics and let people play with 6 guys instead of
six squads in SG2.

** Anyway, YMMV, and I'm only some piker from the Colonies, who rambles a lot.
:)

From: Mike.Elliott@b...

Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 12:51:33 +0100

Subject: Re: Movement thoughts for FMA from Mike - my reply

> ** First: Standard move action (1 action): 6". Standard Combat Move

Where do you get a move of 6" from? I quote from the original email from
Jon T of 09/07/99:

BASE MOVEMENT VALUES: Heavily encumbered character (eg: carrying wounded
comrade): 4" (D4) Encumbered character (eg: carrying heavy weapon, or wearing
heavy unpowered
armour):       6" (D6)
Typical normal character, or "Slow" power suited character: 8" (D8) Very
lightly equipped or very agile character, or "Medium" power suited character:
10" (D10) "Fast" power suited character or typical Combat Cyborg etc.: 12"
(D12)

I was using the "typical normal figure" value of 8".

> ** Well, if you interpret (as some do) some of the stuff in the

Yes, that’s Reaction Fire.

> ** Of course, the wise gamer (someone who should IMHO (only my own!)

While I agree very much with your thinking here, as the rules stand at the
moment, the combat move is NOT the only form of movement allowed once combat
is initiated. There is nothing to say that you can’t use normal movement at
any time. Hence my previous argument.

Now, you and I being "sensible wargamers" will probably use the combat move
because a) its more realistic and b) the element of risk makes the game more
interesting. However, there are some people out there who will say "It
doesn’t say I can’t do it in the rules". Therefore we must legislate if we
want to enforce the random combat move once in combat. Next problem then:
define "once combat has been initiated". After the first shot has been fired?
What if the shot was from a silenced weapon? Once the figure sees an enemy
figure or is shot at? Now you’re going to have to track who is "in combat"
and who isn’t....

> But I don't

Couldn’t agree more. So how do we define "in combat" then, or more
specifically, when can and when can’t a figure use normal movement rather
than combat movement. Any suggestions anybody?

Mike Elliott

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