> From: Allan Goodall <awg@sympatico.ca>
Agreed. Also note that during the Vietnam police action troops didn't go
into the field with fixed bayonnets - what was the point? At under 25
meters units are in CQB with little hope of making actual contact. That is
just a reality of automatic weapons fire.
I've even seen this in real life with toy weapons. In paintball games it is
rare to get within 10 yards of the enemy unless you have overwhelming
suppresion fire. In one instance I was able to get within 6 feet of two
enemy, but only because I had 7 other people beating the bush with hundreds of
rounds while I waltzed in and grabbed the flag.
Paintball isn't nearly as difficult as real warfare for a number of obvious
reasons (rate of fire, actual death involved in one, etc.)
The only time I ever got to stick my muzzle into someone's ribs and shout
"Surrender of die!" was in a village scenario where I was able to enter a
house and overwhelm a sniper by kicking him in the ass and knocking his gun
from his hands. Other than that, out of perhaps, 100 or so games I've never
ever come that close without being totally pinned.
> Peter Mancini wrote:
> I've even seen this in real life with toy weapons. In paintball games
Ah, you must not play in very dense terrain. We have a great spot for paintbal
l that is down near a river, and the brush is very dense and overgrown. The
last time we went out, I don't think I was in a game where we *didn't* get
within te n yards of one another. I duked it out with someone from 15 feet
away at one point because I was dug in under a tree in some brush, and he was
foolish enoug h to try to come in after me even though he couldn't see me.
Note however that I'm not disagreeing with your points about modern combat,
just thought I'd shar e some of my paintball experience (which stretches over
the past 11 years or
so....).
> Paintball isn't nearly as difficult as real warfare for a number of
Very true. For example, in real warfare, soldiers generally don't carry 1500
rounds into the field with them, unlike some of the wanks that I've played
against in paintball games.
> The only time I ever got to stick my muzzle into someone's ribs and
I truly hate playing indoors. I can only imagine (thankfully) what it must've
been like for troops to have to clear out cities and villages.
> Very true. For example, in real warfare, soldiers generally don't
I make it my life's mission to geek tossers like that early and often. <Pow
pow pow pow> "Hit!" "Sorry, didn't hear that..." <pow pow pow pow>
> I truly hate playing indoors. I can only imagine (thankfully) what
It gets the blood flowing, doesn't it. I am not a big fan as you tend to come
away with injuries EVEN IF you weren't hit. Also the high heart rate wears you
out. Finally, people are so wired and tense that occasionally the outcome is
determined in melee (which generally disqualifies both parties!) There is a
report online somewhere that describes the fighting in Grozny. Check it out.
Now if only there were an option to nuke the site from orbit in paint
ball... :-D
--Pete
P.S. for you non-paintball players out there. 1500 rounds weigh about
15 pounds or a stones weight! It is a truely rediculous amount of ammo. If
only the fully auto weapons in the game had more realistic recoil!!!
> -----Original Message-----
[snip]
> Now if only there were an option to nuke the site from orbit in paint
Hmmm.
Fill the water supply with dye. Turn on sprinkler system.
About as close as you could get, I think.
For air-fuel bursts:
Insert dry dye in to buoyancy neutral helium balloons. Blow balloons over
target. Pop balloons. Turn on sprinkler system.
For flame thrower: Fill a SuperSoaker (extra large watter gun) with dye or
hose with dye attachment.
---
> I truly hate playing indoors. I can only imagine (thankfully) what it
_The Enemy At The Gates_ (cited as source material in the original Squad
Leader
)
has some quite chilling narrative describing the sheer brutality of urban
warfare in Stalingrad.
Brian Bell came up with some ingenious devices. We used to have simulated
grenades but Massachusetts and New Hampshire law now ban them as "explosive
devices". Where can I apply to gain citizen ship in a sane state?
Peter said:
> We used to have simulated
Send e-mail to me, offlist. Please include your proposed constitution
(if you're planning a small sovereignity, this can be fairly short: "I'm in
charge.")
Transportation to the Alarishi Empire is your responsibility.
Not only is my state insane, so is the company where I work. Another group in
my company hired a contractor for a project. Since that work ties in very
closely with the work my group does, they put the contractor at a desk next to
mine and set her to work. Now, some time later I asked the contractor, "after
all the insanity today, can I assume someone gave you the quick tour of the
facilities?"
"No."
Not even where the bathrooms are?
"No."
What a horrible way to treat another human being! When I was retelling this to
my coworkers at lunch, someone replied, "It's not my responsibility. I didn't
hire her."
*sigh* Makes me want to jump out the nearest airlock...
In a message dated 11/19/00 8:41:06 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> peter_mancini@msn.com writes:
<<
Agreed. Also note that during the Vietnam police action troops didn't go
into the field with fixed bayonnets - what was the point? At under 25
meters units are in CQB with little hope of making actual contact. That is
just a reality of automatic weapons fire.>>
Actually this is not completely true. I can show you many, many photos from
the Viet Nam war where soldiers are using bayonets. Problem was the quality of
the M8. It would hold a edge worth a damn.
You also see then (and more so now) the U.S. "light infantry" carrying
enormous loads of ammo. Five hundred to eight hundreds rounds of 5.56, one
hundred plus rounds of belted MG ammo, laws and mines. An 80 pound ruck in
normal.
Most firefights in Nam took place at under 50 meters. Failure to close wasn't
a question of firepower - it was a question of terrain (usually to
dense to move through quickly) and the enemy's tactics (light em up and run).
All
infantry combat requires close assault in the final stage of the attack
(unless the objective had been obliterated by supporting fires while the
grunts stand off about 500 meters).
Urban combat is an important aspect of modern warfare. You don't want to get
into HTH if possible but you'd best expect it. The U.S. army began
reintroducing HTH combat about 15 years ago (along with the M9 bayonet and how
to use it).
Faron
Common courtesy is no longer common. This is a disturbing trend that only
cyberpunk as a genre seems to treat with any attention.
> At 3:52 PM -0700 11/20/00, Mike Stanczyk wrote:
I
> didn't hire her."