Mines, detection of

6 posts ยท May 23 1998 to May 26 1998

From: John Atkinson <johnmatkinson@y...>

Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 22:58:46 -0500 (CDT)

Subject: Mines, detection of

Pardon the rambling, but a wee bit o' background is in order for this latest
addition to my mine house rules.

    Mine detection (other than the tried-and-true probing method) was
born in the mid-20th century with the invention of the handheld metal
detector. This device had a number of drawbacks, including inability to be
mounted in a vehicle (necessitating vulnerable and slow dismounted use), and
basic stupidity of the device, in that it would
'ping' on non-mine metalic objects and ignore mines without major
metallic content. The Soviet Union was producing wooden mines even before this
device became common, and by the 1980s mines were in existence sensitive
enough to explode when a metal detector passed within a foot of them (those
nasty Italians!). Countermine technology got it's first real developments in
the early 21st century when the
Americans adopted a ground-penetrating radar mounted on a light utility
vehicle. (Under development today, to be perfected Real Soon Now [tm]) This
technology was also crude and prone to false alarms, but over the suceeding
century and a half the race between mine makers and mine detectors has been
roughly equal. With the 22nd century's capability to produce computors
intelligent enough to sort out rocks from legitemate explosives, a good sensor
suite can be a lifesaver in a mine warfare environment. They are still light
enough to mount in a light utility vehicle (4 capacity points), though they
often are mounted as part of a complete engineering package on a larger, more
survivable vehicle. Comes in three rough technology levels, basic, enhanced,
and
superior.  Also the operator quality comes into play--veterans shift up
a die, green units shift down. Their use is only possible at low speed
(1/2 the unit's max in terrain scanned) and has a mere 200m (2 inch)
range. Mines may also be manufactured at basic, enhanced, or superior
concealment technology levels. Note that both rolls should be made be referee,
and the mine field owners MUST be kept secret, so he doesn't know whether "You
don't detect anything" means "I built a barbed wire fence to make you slow
down and scan it" or "Your idiot operators couldn't detect it if they were
driving through an ordnance dump".

Hand-held distance mine detection is possible, but requires a unit to
be equipped with this stuff and nothing but (close combat weapons only, IOW,
no other fun gear), and produces another die shift down. Yes, that means that
a green unit using basic gear rolls a 1d2. No,
hand-held shouldn't be cheaper than vehicle mounted--miniaturization is
expensive. This is obviously a lot harsher than the simple metal detectors of
today, but you're talking a combination of sensors and the
expert computor systems to sort out granite from C-15 (or whatever
they're up to by then)

From: John Skelly <canjns@c...>

Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 15:33:43 -0400

Subject: RE: Mines, detection of

Just want to add something to John's post. This info is from someone who did a
couple of tours in Yugoslavia (former) as an assault pioneer (infantry
engineer for you yanks).

Around dusk they'd fly over a suspected or known minefield in a helicopter.
Scanning the ground with an IR scope, certain mines would show up due too the
difference in temperatures between the mines and the cooling ground around
them.

Sheep herds would be used. Bad for sheep, but better a dead sheep than a dead
person. They would literally drive a sheep herd over a field and see if
anything was tripped.

After the above were done then the actual people would go in with detectors.
These methods were used for great effect but it must be remembered that they
had the luxury of time and a lack of opposition. The coolest thing about these
methods is the mix of low tech and high tech.

> -----Original Message-----

From: John Atkinson <johnmatkinson@y...>

Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 21:29:06 -0500 (CDT)

Subject: RE: Mines, detection of

> You wrote:

> Around dusk they'd fly over a suspected or known minefield in a

That 'some' makes me nervous.:) But then again I'm a nervous kinda guy. SGLI
is all well and good in theory, but I don't want my next o' kin to find out
how good it is in practice, capice?[1] I think I permitted mine detectors in
VTOLs, flying low and slow. If not I should have.

> Sheep herds would be used. Bad for sheep, but better a dead sheep

Good method, but has the major disadvantage that if your enemy has a
large-caliber machine gun overwatching the minefield (as he should). .
. Not really practical in combat, I'd say.

> The coolest thing about these methods is the mix of low tech and high

When it all comes down, there is still no substitute for a sapper with a
stick, probing carefully once every inch.

[1]SGLI, Serviceman's Group Life Insurance, the only life insurance
policy that specifically covers acts of war.

From: John Skelly <canjns@c...>

Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 01:42:43 -0400

Subject: RE: Mines, detection of

John, I did mention that these methods were used with no fear of enemy
intervention.  I posted it more for interest sake, capice?  ;-)  You
mentioned VTOLs for mine detection, what about some rules on specialized
vehicles (flail tank and the like)?

> -----Original Message-----

From: John Atkinson <johnmatkinson@y...>

Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 22:48:03 -0500 (CDT)

Subject: RE: Mines, detection of

> You wrote:

From: John Skelly <canjns@c...>

Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 07:58:49 -0400

Subject: RE: Mines, detection of

Come on John!

Throw in some Sci-Fi (or some modern day American kit ;-)

But seriously, keep up the posts!

> -----Original Message-----