Mercs, yet again

3 posts ยท Jan 12 2002 to Jan 12 2002

From: Thomas Barclay <Thomas.Barclay@s...>

Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 16:27:10 -0500

Subject: Mercs, yet again

John A replied to my post, and I reply to his:

'm assuming that most mercenary units will probably not be hired by central
governments of major powers. They will be hired by breakaway colonies,
regional governors, and communities on balkanized planets.

[Tomb] A regional governor is a
representative of a major power. And there is plenty of modern evidence that
PMCs are being retained by major governments to fight or aid in the fighting
in situations they don't want to participate in. And the ONLY way the UN will
allow a Mercenary Charter to come into being will involve the mercenaries that
are chartered from not participating in insurgent operations to destabilize a
national government, on that you can depend. So those doing that will be doing
it unchartered (quite probable) or very carefully and quietly.

> NO soldier in his right mind is content

You'd be surprised. Hell, take a look at Market Garden.

[Tomb] They did not plan to fail. They made
mistakes, but they did not knowingly go in with the expectation of failure.
And they were, in the sense I described following, participating in their own
suicide. So this is not precluded by anything I have said. It should just be
very rare. Also, these were not mercenaries either, who
are even more eye-open because of the
corporate focus of their work.

Think of mercenary formations this was: Less averse than national forces to
small casualty counts (it is a risky business, recruiting will fill the gaps,
no flag wrapped coffins on the news)
and far more averse to unit-destroying actions
(no national interest, a lot harder to put together a decimated or annihilated
unit).

It's really capital-intensive to start a
spacefleet.

[Tomb] I wonder if buying a corvette is
more expensive than equipping a Division?

It also requires highly trained personell--
you can run a small-scale training platoon
in your merc batallion.

[Tomb] Look at the size of the Big4 fleets
alone. Their are plenty of veterans to draw from. Though I will admit
groundpounder merc units will be far more common.

You can't run a training ship in your destroyer squadron. It's too dangerous
to have untrained personell aboard a fighting warship.

[Tomb] Most modern fleets do on-board
training. And modern simulators are getting
very cheap and effective for the shore-
bound part. I don't forsee this as a major
issue actually (having worked on next-gen
sims for the Canadian Air Force and for bid
to a very interested USAF - we also had CP
Rail and some other military and civilian industries looking at our tech).

I can't recall a single instance of a modern naval or aviation (excepting
Executive Outcomes with a handful of Hinds, bought cheap from the South
African government after they captured them.) mercenary unit.

[Tomb] As pointed out earlier, the situation
is very different in the future of the GZGverse. Today's world is "small".
Space is not (at least not with GZGverse tech). Privateers aren't required
because big powers are not slugging it out (they are mostly just beating up
little guys with no commerce to attack) and most won't
engage in anti-shipping activity because
the situation of today allows the nations the luxury of being "generous" and
"compliant with Int'l Treaties". The
GZGverse seems to feature more heads-up
fights between major powers in a very very very much bigger playing field with
far scattered outposts. This would seem to
favour just the type of space-capable
mercenary force I've discussed.

The time of privateers and letters of marque was the time when the only
expense in converting a merchantman to a warship was cutting holes in the side
and mounting cannon (Yes, I know purpose-
built warships were better. But they weren't required.)

[Tomb] And you can make ad hoc warships
in GZGverse by removing some cargo spaces and installing weapon spaces in a
fast freighter. The rules don't preclude this at all and neither, AFAIK, does
the universe. Yes, purpose built warships are better. That is still the same.

From: John Atkinson <johnmatkinson@y...>

Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 13:50:47 -0800 (PST)

Subject: Re: Mercs, yet again

> --- Thomas Barclay <kaladorn@fox.nstn.ca> wrote:

> [Tomb] A regional governor is a

Yeah, but I'm assuming that they have a lot of
leeway--especially on balkanized planets where actions
to "ensure security" are going to be judging in terms of "did you win".

> is plenty of modern evidence that PMCs are

Rare--and never, ever acknowledged.

> way the UN will allow a Mercenary Charter

Hrm--you're assuming that a Merc Charter is under UN
supervision. You're also assuming that the UN will suddenly get over it's
schitzophrenia regarding insurrections.

> [Tomb] I wonder if buying a corvette is

I wonder how many divisions are actually in the market, and whether a merc
group of corvettes would be worth hiring?

> [Tomb] Most modern fleets do on-board

Uhhh, but not until they train their crewmen for some time on land. Anyone on
the list know how long it takes to train a submarine crewman?

> [Tomb] And you can make ad hoc warships

You'd be gambling pretty heavily trying to operate those.

From: David Rodemaker <dar@h...>

Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 16:16:58 -0600

Subject: RE: Mercs, yet again

> > way the UN will allow a Mercenary Charter

On the other hand, the UN may have a vested interest in boosting the numbers
of mercs out there. Setting up a situation where proxie battles are being
fought by merc units (as opposed to national forces) could be viewed as in the
UN's best interest.

The biggest problem (as I see it) with trying to apply modern day applications
of doctrine to the GZG universe is the fact that the modern world is
interconnected in a way the the GZG universe isn't. We're 24hrs away from
standing anywhere on the planet, and communication is measured in seconds or
at worst minutes.

This is far from the truth in the GZG universe.

Why can pirates exist? Well, for one thing by the time the Navy finds out
about the attack the pirates are probably at least a few days away (at an
absolute minimum 6hrs per 'jump'), now add the time that it takes for the Navy
(or whomever) to get to the crime scene, now lets try and PSB some sort of
tracking ability???

It is much more like:

Ship Leaves Port Ship doesn't arrive on time Obligitory waiting period (so
that ships don't go haring off on wild
goose-chases when somebody is a little late)
Ship(s) sent to investigate Ship(s) find evidence of pirate attack Navy sends
info along to Intel for analysis Intel sends back analysis

This happens many times

Somebody finally figures out what pirate group it is.

See the first steps again.

Somebody finally figures out (most likely HUMINT) where the pirate base is.

See the first steps again

Somebody (non-military) finally makes the call that the pirates have
been bad enough to wipe out the base.

Navy attacks, wipes out base, survivors flee, the entire cycle starts again.

When looking at Merc Naval Forces what makes the most sense is that big
conglomerates have thier own navy (rather East India Companyish) and probably
thier own 'army' (same again)