Medtech 2180 Part II

2 posts ยท Dec 20 1999 to Dec 21 1999

From: Tom B <kaladorn@g...>

Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 15:32:59 -0500

Subject: Medtech 2180 Part II

Though I agree with Carlos (Los) about the action-reaction sequence,
the equilibrium points change. Soldiers nowdays have a much higher chance of
surviving (given their battlefield protection, given the
medtech - have to have the kit and the support apparatus) than
soldiers of years back. Yet weapons are more lethal. The balance, though still
there, has shifted. I'm proposing a similar shift. Someone said we can barely
conceive of 2180s tech given our progress from 1880. They are probably right.
To those that say we can't map a human brain... remember the old saying "If a
grey haired distinguished scientist tells you a thing is possible, he's
probably right. If he tells you it is impossible he is almost invariably
wrong."

I agree with some of the concerns people have raised about the nature
of the regrowth - the trauma (mentally) (but if I can rebuild brains,
can I not edit this out?), the time factors, etc. But try to go where I was
going. In 1980, I lose a hand, I'm out of the infantry with a prosthetic
probably. In 2180, I'm out for a month getting a cloned
hand accelera-grown and acclimatizing.
That's better than being cashiered or relegated to a desk job.

Keep in mind that the ability to rapidly and completely heal normal
wounds will mean a change in the scale of campaign speed - healing
that used to put you out of the line for a week might take 2 days. Stuff that
used to take several months might work out in several
weeks. That makes a difference - you're still out of the battle, but
not the war. Hospitals always have been a target to some for just this reason,
and this will only make them moreso (and the morale effects are nasty too).

I don't know about any of the bioscience crowd on this list... but from my
view of the computer world, I find that I (despite working in
a broad-spectrum cutting edge company and reading journals,
newsgroups, websites, etc) am constantly surprised at the pace and variety of
innovation. If this is true in other fields, as I suspect it is in
biosciences, I think we'll look at what they can do in 2180 with awe. We
probably wouldn't even understand it.

To deal with specific comments:

Weapons: Of course, weapons will develop to be as effectual as possible. There
will be someone build neurotoxic ammo that prevents regen from working well.
But the civilized countries won't use it
because in RL they use jacketed rounds NOW - to wound, not kill.
They'll be happy with taking the soldier out of today's fight. It'll still
take his buddies to get him back to the medical system. He might come back
sooner, but he'll still be worth putting down temporarily. And a shot to the
head with an IPG *will* probably make you irretreivably dead. (To follow on
someone's thought: What kind of weapon vaporizes you but nothing in your
surroundings if it misses? A Star Trek phaser....). Seriously though, I have
no doubt some kinds of wounds will take a while to heal, and some types of
weapons will have gross lethality. But, in general, lighter wounds will be
healed quicker.

Infrastructure: Nanites. Medics with brain freezers. Built in personal health
monitors. Automatic Trauma Prep kits the soldier wear that will treat them if
they are hit until medical help arrives. Maybe even
anti-grav stretchers and mini-stasis chambers. Who knows. There will
be a lot of this kit, but it will be expensive to use and deploy and will
require an infrastructure. But this goes with the support arm of the future
military and represents well the "high tech force" cost factor.

Clones: Useful for replacing grossly badly damaged soldiers. Useful
for parts. Take time to grow, though probably faster than we think -
might be the hollow head variety with drop in brain fittings... I have
heard talk of a brain transplant in the next 10-20 years. If you had
to grow one and "refit" the brain from scratch, it might take a long time. But
if you did updates before every mission, it might not be so bad. Good life
insurance policy for soldier's families. Do I agree there are issues with the
initial update? Sure. It might take a bunch of work to make your clone like
the "you of today" so that the wakeup is not a shock. Would there be
councilling, adaption technologies, adaption therapy? Yes. Could we remove
traumatic memories of death? Probably. Will all this cost? Yes. Will all of it
require a big system? Yes. Will everyone use it? Probably not.

Life Extension: Biosciences promise us lives of 120-150 years, and
health and youth (18-25 like physique) up until we are 60+. This
hasn't happened yet, but if and when (and I do suspect it'll be when), we'll
have a soldier who could be combat effective for 20 more years! Makes keeping
him alive or piping his memories into a new body, even with a six month or
year adaption, a viable investment. Imagine the level of a professional
(though small) army of the day: The typical
service length is 40 years, the average time-in would probably be
around 20+ years. That makes for a high degree of professionalism.

Improved Reflexes, Enhanced Endurance, Quicker Reactions, Healing Rates: All
of these may well translate to the better survivability, quicker recovery or
avoidance of strains, pulls, fatigue, exhaustion, hunger, etc. It may also
produce better mental agility. Overall just better soldiers. Combine this with
a longer service life, more high tech training and kit, and you have an
astoundingly effective (though very expensive) force.

Robots: Bots will be used for a lot of fighting in the future. But (like the
construction of the NAC) this one area Jon decides men will still be involved
in, and whether it is likely or not, we enjoy it so we assume it is so for
whatever reason. It might not be real (or you might need a big PSB, but so
what...)

GAME EFFECTS:

Most of this may already be assumed within SG2 - faster reflexes -
everyone has em - shows up in troop quality. As does the longer
training lifecycle. The medicine and weapons lethality could be figured into
the recovery rolls. The infrastructure is beyond the scoope of the game
normally. But you could easily say that someone with say backward 20th Century
medicine subjected to 22nd century
firepower rolls recoveries on a different chart (1-4 dead, 5 wounded,
6 okay). My point pretty much was that although these wonders undoubtedly
exist the only two places we'd probably see them are 1) in an RPG for GZG
(where such things would make a big difference to PCs) and 2) in a campaign
game where the level of support varies.

For an example of the second part, contrast these recovery tables:

If wounded, roll d6 if basic (third rate) medical system. roll d8 if enhanced
(modern) medical system. roll d10 if advanced (state of the art) medical
system. d12 for alien or hyper advanced (UN?) medical system and d4 might be
primitive (no tools to speak of). Penalize 1 die shift for supply problems.

roll results 1 dies 2 permanent unrecoverable injury 3 recovers in 1 year 4
recovers in 1 month 5 recovers in 2 weeks 6 recovers in 1 week 7 recovers in 4
days 8 recovers in 2 days 9 recovers in 1 day 10 recovers immediately

This might give the flavour for a campaign where a small high tech force is
opposing a larger local lower tech force. The locals have
supply problems (out on the rim) and a good-but-not-great medical
system (enhanced). So they are rolling d8 downshifted to d6 for their wounded.
By contrast, the Marine vessel in orbit has a superior medical system and lots
of supply (relative to unit size)at least to start with so they roll d10. On
average, wounded in the superior facility recover within a week, those less
fortunate in the poorer conditions average a month. The best someone in the
poor conditions can hope for is a week (due to shortage of supplies, etc), and
the best someone on the ship can hope for is an immediate return to active
duty.

From: Los <los@c...>

Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 23:58:26 -0500

Subject: Re: Medtech 2180 Part II

I think if you can achieve a level of technology necessary to do what Tom
purports then there's absolutely no reason to have "individual" soldiers at
all. No economical reason to concentrate on regeneration, evac medical
services what so ever, it's economically a waste of time. (unless sthey're
fairly light wounds). You simple clone/create/grow a few archetypes for
bodies, then program in one or more or whatever various types of brain maps
you need. Edit out whatever makes them people (though not human), or whatever
would make them hestitant to perfrom after they've seen their buddies killed
(to some extent) and you have hundreds or thousands of soldiers to do whatever
you want. If they get killed who gives a shit? It's merely a cost decision
nothing more. But I'd suspect if we could do that then we could design robots
or cyborgs to do it without interjecting the imperfections of human flesh at
all. Either way occasionally, daily weekly after operations whatever, you
simply do back ups and updates to the memory map so this way you are capturing
and disseminating relevant experience amongst your force.

Along these lines you would very rapidly have soldiers that would be
unstoppable from at least an experience/competency point of view. Of
course if you have ONE FUCK-UP, and one of them through a program glitch
or unforseen evolution or whatnot rediscovers his self awareness and realizes
what you are doing to them then you are in some deep deep shit.

It's sort of a take on Universal Soldier, Blade Runner, whatever.

It certainly makes for some good fiction! (I'm already thinking...)